From: DRAGONFLY           
To: CHARLES DITTELL     
Subject: relig & logic??
Date & Time: 05/21/91 21:27:19
Message Number 16982

> The further from "truth" one gets, the less useful in the intermediate
> to long run the idea, perception, belief becomes (to humanity in
> general.)
    
   (I'm not even going to ask what "truth" is.  Verifiable reality?)
  
> A friend believes the universe began in 4004 BC.
    
   Hold it right there.  In his world, he has a reasonably complete,
non-contradictory system.  (I'll WAGER that if I hadn't thrown in this
parenthetical aside, Turtle would jumpin to this discussion, demanding
that I prove creationism to be true, that I explain the dinosaurs within
the system, and that I counter-explain every scientific detail that
points to a much older universe.  All I say to that: God made it that
way.)
   What are the faults with it?  Unlike with evolutionism, one cannot
make any predictions about the future.  Creationism says that at one
point, God created the universe very close to the way things are today.
On the other hand, evolution can make a prediction: that creatures will
grow better at survival with time.  (Note: there is a school of thought
which says that God set the wheels of life in motion, some unspecified
time ago, and is now using evolution.  This theory makes the same
predictions as evolutionism...)
     
   Anyway, what does this have to do with our subject: "Is religion
'useful'?"  Simple: religion can hurt and help scientific development.
    
   How can it help scientific development?  All science assumes the
universe has an order; that experiments are repeatable; and that there
are a finite number of laws which if discovered would explain 
everything.  These assumptions actually came out of Christian ideas
(although, as Turtle will invariably point out, they can exist 
independently of religion.) 
   
> What blows me away is that some people still believe that religions
> "prove" supernatural events occur.
    
   That's another topic entirely.  I've never heard a convincing proof
that supernatural events DON'T occur.  (Continued next message.)