1237db2536e4
c_echo



Hello Bob - 

>> I already _am_ invisible here, haven't you noticed? ;-) 

BS> That I received this proves otherwise. 

I was speaking metaphorically Bob. (G) 

>> On FIDO spite is quite a motivator AFAIK. ;-) 

BS> Charles, a couple of points... 

BS> 1. As a matter of principle, I try not to let spite
BS> motivate me. I'm usually reasonably successful. 

With the qualifier "usually" in there I'm unable to express an
opinion. 

BS> 2. If I were feeling spiteful toward you, I'd simply enter
BS> your name into the mailing list software as someone not to
BS> allow to post. Even when I'm feeling spiteful, I'm still
BS> lazy enough not to do anything which requires extra work.
BS> Besides, it doesn't count as spite since, AFAIK, you'd be
BS> just as happy remaining isolated on the Fido side of the
BS> gateway, with no access to the Internet side of things. 

Well that explains your lack of motivation since I would be
"just as happy". Something of the old bre'r rabbit and the
briar patch. 

RBS>>> If the format causes problems with your, or anyone
RBS>>> else's, OLR, now would be a good time to let us know so
RBS>>> things can be tuned to everyone's benefit. 

>>> I just did. Later in this same message your reply is a bit
>>> different. 

BS> I forwarded your message to Janis. She's the one who
BS> proposed the means of identifying Fidonet users to the
BS> mailing list. Perhaps she can up with an alternate solution
BS> which will address your concerns. Or perhaps not - the
BS> addressing rules of Fido and Internet mail are sufficiently
BS> different to create problems for any gateway solution. 

I'm certain that Janis will leave no turn unstoned in the quest
to solve this problem for me. ;-) 

Before anyone jumps in and points out that I do, in fact, have
the source code for my OLR and did manage to fudge in a few new
functions here/there and modify other functions I would like to
say that my concern was for those who do not have the source
code nor the inclination to alter and recompile their OLRs. 

Just in case this never does get 'fixed' I also use ATP as my
OLR under Linux. The code is available in many places, for DOS
at Simtelnet, and is written to compile with DOS, Linux, BSD,
and I think at least one other OS (QWK packets only as
written). It's not as fancy as some OLRs and looks like you're
on a BBS but it's not all that bad either. :-) 

BS> On the Internet side of things, all Jon and I have to do is
BS> establish the gateway, and the messages come through with
BS> whatever naming scheme Janis has set up on her side of the
BS> gateway. 

>>>> If the arrangement makes Janis, Jon, and Bob happy them I
>>>> am happy. 

RBS>>> Actually, first of all, it had to have Tom's blessing
RBS>>> since he's the Fidonet C_Echo moderator. He's the one
RBS>>> who had the final say whether to proceed or not. I asked
RBS>>> about it and he agreed, so the project moved forward.
RBS>>> The link is just as easy (a lot easier, as it turns out)
RBS>>> to dissolve than it was to set up in the first place. It
RBS>>> will remain in place ad long as it has has the C_Echo
RBS>>> moderator's support. If you'd like to change it, then
RBS>>> run for the moderator's job. 

>> First you say people here should express their views then
>> you go for the "cheap shot" that I should be the moderator
>> or my opinions are meaningless. As I told you when I
>> declined to be the moderator of the DOS portion of _your_
>> forum at snippets, I seek no position or title and have no
>> 'group' or 'club' and don't intend to start one. 

BS> Hardly a "cheap shot". Your views are not meaningless, and
BS> should be given equal weight as any other Fido members.
BS> However, the ultimate decision responsibility rests with
BS> the Fido C_Echo moderator. Once he's heard your views and
BS> those of the other Fido members, he should (and did) act as
BS> he thought best. I was no part of the decision process
BS> other than to offer an alternative to the Yahoo groups
BS> gateway which was unreliable and carried ads. 

Gun merchants use similar logic that they only offer the guns
for sale they don't pull any triggers. ;-) 

BS> Given that reality, the only way you could effect change
BS> would be to become the decision maker yourself. 

BS> Each of us chooses the roles we play in life. You've
BS> apparently made the conscious decision to play the role of
BS> outsider, untainted by the system. 

Well I was tainted by the system as sig section leader on
Compuserve and it made me feel cheap and used. After years of
meditation and cheap wine I decided not to do that again. 

BS> There's nothing wrong with that, but you still have to
BS> realize that assuming such a posture renders you relatively
BS> impotent at effecting significant change. 

I've been feeling a bit impotent lately but vitamins should
help. Significant change is a bit relative but generally you
are correct, I am not the one to blame when the stuff hits the
whatever. 

BS> And, since you chose to make our personal email public (a
BS> significant breach of nettiquette, but I'm OK with it), 

Sorry, if you want me to remain silent all you have to do is
say "this is between us" or "for your eyes only" or
"keepa you
big mouth shut!". I can't check as I seem to have deleted the
email but if you _did_ say any of the above please accept my
apologies and my excuse that I am getting old and forgetful. 

BS> offered you the job of moderating the DOS group primarily
BS> because of your obvious expertise, but also as a way of
BS> burying the hatchet from our previous encounters. You
BS> declined and I respect that decision, 

Wait a minute now. I declined the moderation of the DOS group
but did not decline the bury the hatchet part. 

BS> however I should also add that it was *not* a offer to form
BS> your own private "club", but simply a service job to share
BS> your knowledge and experience for the benefit of others, 

I already did that when I wrote my DOS & W31 website. What I
felt was significant is there now. Anything that is not there I
probably don't know or don't care (anymore). 

BS> using your best judgment to optimize a S/N ratio conducive
BS> to the free flow of ideas and information. That's what
BS> moderators do. 

I really thought you had said that you were still actively
doing embedded DOS software and because of that I thought that
you should have the DOS group? Did I miss something along the
way? 

If you start up an OBERON group I won't moderate that either
but I would have lots of opinions. :-) 

>
>        ,                          ,
>      o/      Charles.Angelich      \o       ,
>       __o/
>     / >          USA, MI           < \   __\__
 

___ * ATP/16bit 2.31 * 
... DOS the Ghost in the Machine! http://www.undercoverdesign.com/dosghost/

--- Maximus/2 3.01