From: "Randy H" 

Getting the owners of US phone numbers is damn near instanteneous-foreign
phone numbers are probably a little less so daunting. Getting cell data,
well, that depends on the technology-why do you think the government wanted
E911 pushed so hard and so fast?

And as for FISA requiring a crime to be commited, that's a crock: FISA
allows for collecting of intelligence without a court order for up to 1
year (50 U.S.C. $ 1802), but with the proviso that there is no
"substantial likelihood" that the intercepted communications
include those to which a U.S. person is a party. $ 1802(a)(1)(B).


"Gary Britt"  wrote in message
news:43a98741$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>
> Fair enough, but you omit the fact that Clinton's people argued to
> congress
> that the President has "inherent constitutional authority" that isn't
> defined by these statutes.  Just like the current President's advisor say.
>
> Next your quote points out the problem for Bush and why he had to exercise
> his inherent constitutional authority.  Read the part below you quoted
> where
> the attorney general has to certify that no US Person will be surveiled.
> Then tell me how the attorney general could make such a certification when
> all they have that needs  to be quickly and instantly acted upon is a list
> of phone numbers some which might be cell phones with foreign numbers but
> operating out of the US or US telephone numbers which may or may not have
> US
> Persons at the other end.
>
> Then explain to me how if that's all the info you have how you convince a
> judge that you have probable cause to believe a crime has been committed
> by
> the person at the other end of the phone number when that's all you have.
> Even terrorists have to call their turbin makers, tailors, and order out
> for
> pizza now and then.  FISA requires a criminal law, full probable cause
> approach, when a US Person might be involved and is wholly inadequate for
> protecting this country.
>
> FISA exists because the left has never stopped viewing the world through
> the
> prism of a bunch of unwashed hippies looking at Nixon, Johnson, and
> Vietnam.
> This so colors their thinking they are unfit to lead or even have input on
> these matters, and their lack of nuance is shown in how they are unable to
> even discuss these matters without saying if we don't maintain an Al Qaeda
> bill of rights then the sky is falling and we are all suffering from KGB
> and
> Hitler type control and surveillance.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>
> "Randy H"  wrote in message
> news:43a9779f{at}w3.nls.net...
>> Fact Check: Clinton/Carter Executive Orders Did Not Authorize Warrantless
>> The top of the Drudge Report claims “CLINTON EXECUTIVE ORDER: SECRET
> SEARCH
>> ON AMERICANS WITHOUT COURT ORDER…” It’s not true. Here’s the breakdown –
>> What Drudge says:
>>
>>   Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to
> approve
>> physical searches, without a court order”
>>
>> What Clinton actually signed:
>>
>>   Section 1. Pursuant to section 302(a)(1) [50 U.S.C. 1822(a)] of the
>> [Foreign Intelligence Surveillance] Act, the Attorney General is
> authorized
>> to approve physical searches, without a court order, to acquire foreign
>> intelligence information for periods of up to one year, if the Attorney
>> General makes the certifications required by that section.
>>
>> That section requires the Attorney General to certify is the search will
> not
>> involve “the premises, information, material, or property of a United
> States
>> person.” That means U.S. citizens or anyone inside of the United States.
>>
>> The entire controversy about Bush’s program is that, for the first time
>> ever, allows warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens and other people
>> inside of the United States. Clinton’s 1995 executive order did not
>> authorize that.
>>
>> Drudge pulls the same trick with Carter.
>>
>> What Drudge says:
>>
>>   Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General
> is
>> authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign
>> intelligence information without a court order.”
>>
>> What Carter’s executive order actually says:
>>
>>   1-101. Pursuant to Section 102(a)(1) of the Foreign Intelligence
>> Surveillance Act of 1978 (50 U.S.C. 1802(a)), the Attorney General is
>> authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign
>> intelligence information without a court order, but only if the Attorney
>> General makes the certifications required by that Section.
>>
>> What the Attorney General has to certify under that section is that the
>> surveillance will not contain “the contents of any communication to which
> a
>> United States person is a party.” So again, no U.S. persons are involved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Gary Britt"  wrote in message
>> news:43a8d996$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>> > Read 'em and weep boys:  I wonder how Carl Levin, Russ Feingold, and
>> > Barbara
>> > Boxer are going to explain this to the American People.
>> >
>> > Next on Drudge.  Monkeys spotted flying out of the Ass of Harry Reid.
>> > Film
>> > at 11:00!!!!!!!!!!!!   LOL
>> >
>> > From Drudge:
>> >
>> >
>> > CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS -- WITHOUT COURT
>> > ORDER
>> >
>> > CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: 'ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE' WITHOUT COURT ORDER
>> >
>> > Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do
>> > searches without court approval
>> >
>> > Clinton, February 9, 1995: "The Attorney General is authorized to
> approve
>> > physical searches, without a court order"
>> >
>> > Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979:
"Attorney General
> is
>> > authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign
>> > intelligence information without a court order."
>> >
>> > WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of
> U.S.
>> > citizens but also -- in the delicate words of a Justice Department
>> > official -- to "places where you wouldn't find or would
be unlikely to
>> > find
>> > information involving a U.S. citizen... would allow the government to
> use
>> > classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors
> to
>> > observe people inside their homes, without a court order."
>> >
>> > Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration
>> > believes the president "has inherent authority to
conduct warrantless
>> > searches for foreign intelligence purposes."
>> >
>> > Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames's office and home in June
> and
>> > October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5