From: "Mark" 

LOL, well first off, it's in the NYTimes, so the reliability of the
reporting is in question by default.

Secondly, I uttered words to the effect that the Bush Sr. seemed a bit
wimpy to me, I did it on the rocks across from Walker's Point when he was
still VP and before I knew that was his house, so I've been in the NSA
database for decades, and oddly enough I still feel free to express my
opinion and no one has come to check and see if I have any Mao books, at
least not while I was home...

And thirdly, related to the second point, they've been doing that stuff
since their inception -- it's their job. 


"Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
news:43ae1459{at}w3.nls.net...
> The problem is we've gone from Bush saying that the court was bypassed for
> a few extreme cases ( he either lied about the cell phones rationale or is
> really misinformed  AKA wmd ) to a vast data mining operation that
> bypasses the courts again.
>
> I wonder if 'Bush sucks' qualifies as a NSA pattern matching hit. There
> Mark we are both in the NSA database now
>
> Merry Christmas to you also
>
>
> "Mark"  wrote in message
news:43ae1020{at}w3.nls.net...
>> More would say that it'd be malfeasance in office if he didn't do it.
>> 
>>
>> Merry Christmas back at ya 
>>
>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
>> news:43ae0d1b$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>> Some would say Bush is criminally negligent instituting this data mining
>>>
>>> By the way Merry Christmas  - peace on earth especially to
neocons 
>>>
>>>
>>> "Gary Britt"  wrote
in message
>>> news:43adffce$1{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>> As judge Posner said, the President would be criminally
negligent had
>>>> he NOT
>>>> instituted this surveillance.
>>>>
>>>> Gary
>>>>
>>>> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote
in message
>>>> news:43addbbf{at}w3.nls.net...
>>>>> Well let's let the NSA capture all the data at their
leisure without a
>>>> court
>>>>> approval. How soon before the government decides to
use the 'pattern
>>>>> matching' for other than 'terrorist' activity? The 
RIAA and MPAA are
>>>>> probably wringing their hands in anticipation.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html
>>>>>
>>>>> WASHINGTON, Dec. 23 - The National Security Agency has
traced and
>>>>> analyzed
>>>>> large volumes of telephone and Internet communications
flowing into
>>>>> and
>>>> out
>>>>> of the United States as part of the eavesdropping program that
>>>>> President
>>>>> Bush approved after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to
hunt for evidence
>>>>> of
>>>>> terrorist activity, according to current and former government
>>>>> officials.
>>>>>
>>>>> The volume of information harvested from
telecommunication data and
>>>>> voice
>>>>> networks, without court-approved warrants, is much
larger than the
>>>>> White
>>>>> House has acknowledged, the officials said. It was collected by
>>>>> tapping
>>>>> directly into some of the American telecommunication
system's main
>>>> arteries,
>>>>> they said.
>>>>>
>>>>> As part of the program approved by President Bush for domestic
>>>> surveillance
>>>>> without warrants, the N.S.A. has gained the
cooperation of American
>>>>> telecommunications companies to obtain backdoor access
to streams of
>>>>> domestic and international communications, the officials said.
>>>>>
>>>>> The government's collection and analysis of phone and
Internet traffic
>>>> have
>>>>> raised questions among some law enforcement and
judicial officials
>>>> familiar
>>>>> with the program. One issue of concern to the Foreign
Intelligence
>>>>> Surveillance Court, which has reviewed some separate warrant
>>>>> applications
>>>>> growing out of the N.S.A.'s surveillance program, is
whether the court
>>>>> has
>>>>> legal authority over calls outside the United States
that happen to
>>>>> pass
>>>>> through American-based telephonic
"switches," according to officials
>>>>> familiar with the matter.
>>>>>
>>>>> "There was a lot of discussion about the
switches" in conversations
>>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>>> court, a Justice Department official said, referring
to the gateways
>>>> through
>>>>> which much of the communications traffic flows.
"You're talking about
>>>> access
>>>>> to such a vast amount of communications, and the
question was, How do
>>>>> you
>>>>> minimize something that's on a switch that's carrying such large
>>>>> volumes
>>>> of
>>>>> traffic? The court was very, very concerned about that."
>>>>>
>>>>> Since the disclosure last week of the N.S.A.'s
domestic surveillance
>>>>> program, President Bush and his senior aides have
stressed that his
>>>>> executive order allowing eavesdropping without
warrants was limited to
>>>>> the
>>>>> monitoring of international phone and e-mail
communications involving
>>>> people
>>>>> with known links to Al Qaeda.
>>>>>
>>>>> What has not been publicly acknowledged is that N.S.A.
technicians,
>>>> besides
>>>>> actually eavesdropping on specific conversations, have
combed through
>>>> large
>>>>> volumes of phone and Internet traffic in search of
patterns that might
>>>> point
>>>>> to terrorism suspects. Some officials describe the
program as a large
>>>>> data-mining operation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current and former government officials who
discussed the program
>>>>> were
>>>>> granted anonymity because it remains classified.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bush administration officials declined to comment on
Friday on the
>>>> technical
>>>>> aspects of the operation and the N.S.A.'s use of broad
searches to
>>>>> look
>>>> for
>>>>> clues on terrorists. Because the program is highly
classified, many
>>>> details
>>>>> of how the N.S.A. is conducting it remain unknown, and
members of
>>>>> Congress
>>>>> who have pressed for a full Congressional inquiry say
they are eager
>>>>> to
>>>>> learn more about the program's operational details, as
well as its
>>>> legality.
>>>>>
>>>>> Officials in the government and the telecommunications
industry who
>>>>> have
>>>>> knowledge of parts of the program say the N.S.A. has
sought to analyze
>>>>> communications patterns to glean clues from details like who is
>>>>> calling
>>>>> whom, how long a phone call lasts and what time of day
it is made, and
>>>>> the
>>>>> origins and destinations of phone calls and e-mail
messages. Calls to
>>>>> and
>>>>> from Afghanistan, for instance, are known to have been
of particular
>>>>> interest to the N.S.A. since the Sept. 11 attacks, the
officials said.
>>>>>
>>>>> This so-called "pattern analysis" on calls
within the United States
>>>>> would,
>>>>> in many circumstances, require a court warrant if the government
>>>>> wanted to
>>>>> trace who calls whom.
>>>>>
>>>>> The use of similar data-mining operations by the Bush
administration
>>>>> in
>>>>> other contexts has raised strong objections, most notably in
>>>>> connection
>>>> with
>>>>> the Total Information Awareness system, developed by
the Pentagon for
>>>>> tracking terror suspects, and the Department of
Homeland Security's
>>>>> Capps
>>>>> program for screening airline passengers. Both programs were
>>>>> ultimately
>>>>> scrapped after public outcries over possible threats
to privacy and
>>>>> civil
>>>>> liberties
>>>>>
>>>>> But the Bush administration regards the N.S.A.'s
ability to trace and
>>>>> analyze large volumes of data as critical to its
expanded mission to
>>>> detect
>>>>> terrorist plots before they can be carried out,
officials familiar
>>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>>> program say. Administration officials maintain that
the system set up
>>>>> by
>>>>> Congress in 1978 under the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act does
>>>>> not
>>>>> give them the speed and flexibility to respond fully
to terrorist
>>>>> threats
>>>> at
>>>>> home.
>>>>>
>>>>> A former technology manager at a major
telecommunications company said
>>>> that
>>>>> since the Sept. 11 attacks, the leading companies in
the industry have
>>>> been
>>>>> storing information on calling patterns and giving it
to the federal
>>>>> government to aid in tracking possible terrorists.
>>>>>
>>>>> "All that data is mined with the cooperation of
the government and
>>>>> shared
>>>>> with them, and since 9/11, there's been much more
active involvement
>>>>> in
>>>> that
>>>>> area," said the former manager, a
telecommunications expert who did
>>>>> not
>>>> want
>>>>> his name or that of his former company used because of
concern about
>>>>> revealing trade secrets.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such information often proves just as valuable to the
government as
>>>>> eavesdropping on the calls themselves, the former manager said.
>>>>>
>>>>> "If they get content, that's useful to them too,
but the real plum is
>>>> going
>>>>> to be the transaction data and the traffic
analysis," he said.
>>>>> "Massive
>>>>> amounts of traffic analysis information - who is
calling whom, who is
>>>>> in
>>>>> Osama Bin Laden's circle of family and friends - is
used to identify
>>>>> lines
>>>>> of communication that are then given closer scrutiny."
>>>>>
>>>>> Several officials said that after President Bush's
order authorizing
>>>>> the
>>>>> N.S.A. program, senior government officials arranged
with officials of
>>>> some
>>>>> of the nation's largest telecommunications companies
to gain access to
>>>>> switches that act as gateways at the borders between the United
>>>>> States'
>>>>> communications networks and international networks.
The identities of
>>>>> the
>>>>> corporations involved could not be determined.
>>>>>
>>>>> The switches are some of the main arteries for moving
voice and some
>>>>> Internet traffic into and out of the United States,
and, with the
>>>>> globalization of the telecommunications industry in
recent years, many
>>>>> international-to-international calls are also routed
through such
>>>>> American
>>>>> switches.
>>>>>
>>>>> One outside expert on communications privacy who
previously worked at
>>>>> the
>>>>> N.S.A. said that to exploit its technological capabilities, the
>>>>> American
>>>>> government had in the last few years been quietly
encouraging the
>>>>> telecommunications industry to increase the amount of
international
>>>> traffic
>>>>> that is routed through American-based switches.
>>>>>
>>>>> The growth of that transit traffic had become a major
issue for the
>>>>> intelligence community, officials say, because it had
not been fully
>>>>> addressed by 1970's-era laws and regulations governing
the N.S.A. Now
>>>>> that
>>>>> foreign calls were being routed through switches on
American soil,
>>>>> some
>>>>> judges and law enforcement officials regarded
eavesdropping on those
>>>>> calls
>>>>> as a possible violation of those decades-old
restrictions, including
>>>>> the
>>>>> Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which requires
court-approved
>>>>> warrants for domestic surveillance.
>>>>>
>>>>> Historically, the American intelligence community has had close
>>>>> relationships with many communications and computer
firms and related
>>>>> technical industries. But the N.S.A.'s backdoor access to major
>>>>> telecommunications switches on American soil with the
cooperation of
>>>>> major
>>>>> corporations represents a significant expansion of the agency's
>>>> operational
>>>>> capability, according to current and former government
officials.
>>>>>
>>>>> Phil Karn, a computer engineer and technology expert
at a major West
>>>>> Coast
>>>>> telecommunications company, said access to such
switches would be
>>>>> significant. "If the government is gaining access
to the switches like
>>>> this,
>>>>> what you're really talking about is the capability of
an enormous
>>>>> vacuum
>>>>> operation to sweep up data," he said.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

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