From: "Gary Britt" 

The court isn't bypassed at all in the data mining, for many reasons.  The
court just flatly isn't required for the data mining.  FISA specifically
applies only if the target of the surveillance is a KNOWN US PERSON.
Emphasis on the KNOWN.  It requires a specific known US Person be the
target of the surveillance.  Since the data mining is attempting to detect
or profile UNKNOWN person or persons FISA doesn't apply at all.  FISA also
doesn't apply if the intercepts or mining take place outside the USA, and
this exception may also apply.

Bottom line is since the data mining isn't aimed at a KNOWN US person
and/or because its collection is done outside the USA, there is no warrant
requirement under FISA.  Finally, since the data mining takes place outside
of a criminal context but for foreign intelligence and national security
purposes, the 4th Amendment isn't violated because it is a 'reasonable'
search.

Lastly, there is no reasonable expectation of privacy on cell phone or
email traffic since that information can be monitored by almost anyone who
cares to get a scanner from Radio Shack or various software tools to
inspect packets as they wiz by publicly on the internet.  Its not searching
if you stand on a chair and shout a message to someone else 100 yards away,
expecting it to be relayed along the way by several others.  You put your
communication out there where it can be listened to by all comers, so you
have no reasonable expectation of privacy for it.  An email sent of the
internet is much the same thing.  You know when you send it that anyone
with the software could be listening to the packets as they go by.

Gary


"Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
news:43ae1459{at}w3.nls.net...
> The problem is we've gone from Bush saying that the court was bypassed for
a
> few extreme cases ( he either lied about the cell phones rationale or is
> really misinformed  AKA wmd ) to a vast data mining operation that
bypasses
> the courts again.
>
> I wonder if 'Bush sucks' qualifies as a NSA pattern matching hit. There
Mark
> we are both in the NSA database now
>
> Merry Christmas to you also
>
>
> "Mark"  wrote in message
news:43ae1020{at}w3.nls.net...
> > More would say that it'd be malfeasance in office if he didn't do it.
 > be one of that "more">
> >
> > Merry Christmas back at ya 
> >
> > "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
> > news:43ae0d1b$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> >> Some would say Bush is criminally negligent instituting this data
mining
> >>
> >> By the way Merry Christmas  - peace on earth especially to
neocons 
> >>
> >>
> >> "Gary Britt" 
wrote in message
> >> news:43adffce$1{at}w3.nls.net...
> >>> As judge Posner said, the President would be criminally
negligent had
he
> >>> NOT
> >>> instituted this surveillance.
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>> "Rich Gauszka" 
wrote in message
> >>> news:43addbbf{at}w3.nls.net...
> >>>> Well let's let the NSA capture all the data at their
leisure without
a
> >>> court
> >>>> approval. How soon before the government decides to
use the 'pattern
> >>>> matching' for other than 'terrorist' activity? The 
RIAA and MPAA are
> >>>> probably wringing their hands in anticipation.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/24/politics/24spy.html
> >>>>
> >>>> WASHINGTON, Dec. 23 - The National Security Agency
has traced and
> >>>> analyzed
> >>>> large volumes of telephone and Internet
communications flowing into
and
> >>> out
> >>>> of the United States as part of the eavesdropping program that
> >>>> President
> >>>> Bush approved after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks to
hunt for evidence
of
> >>>> terrorist activity, according to current and former government
> >>>> officials.
> >>>>
> >>>> The volume of information harvested from
telecommunication data and
> >>>> voice
> >>>> networks, without court-approved warrants, is much
larger than the
> >>>> White
> >>>> House has acknowledged, the officials said. It was collected by
tapping
> >>>> directly into some of the American telecommunication
system's main
> >>> arteries,
> >>>> they said.
> >>>>
> >>>> As part of the program approved by President Bush for domestic
> >>> surveillance
> >>>> without warrants, the N.S.A. has gained the
cooperation of American
> >>>> telecommunications companies to obtain backdoor
access to streams of
> >>>> domestic and international communications, the officials said.
> >>>>
> >>>> The government's collection and analysis of phone and Internet
traffic
> >>> have
> >>>> raised questions among some law enforcement and
judicial officials
> >>> familiar
> >>>> with the program. One issue of concern to the Foreign
Intelligence
> >>>> Surveillance Court, which has reviewed some separate warrant
> >>>> applications
> >>>> growing out of the N.S.A.'s surveillance program, is
whether the
court
> >>>> has
> >>>> legal authority over calls outside the United States
that happen to
> >>>> pass
> >>>> through American-based telephonic
"switches," according to officials
> >>>> familiar with the matter.
> >>>>
> >>>> "There was a lot of discussion about the
switches" in conversations
> >>>> with
> >>> the
> >>>> court, a Justice Department official said, referring
to the gateways
> >>> through
> >>>> which much of the communications traffic flows.
"You're talking about
> >>> access
> >>>> to such a vast amount of communications, and the
question was, How do
> >>>> you
> >>>> minimize something that's on a switch that's carrying
such large
> >>>> volumes
> >>> of
> >>>> traffic? The court was very, very concerned about that."
> >>>>
> >>>> Since the disclosure last week of the N.S.A.'s
domestic surveillance
> >>>> program, President Bush and his senior aides have
stressed that his
> >>>> executive order allowing eavesdropping without
warrants was limited
to
> >>>> the
> >>>> monitoring of international phone and e-mail
communications involving
> >>> people
> >>>> with known links to Al Qaeda.
> >>>>
> >>>> What has not been publicly acknowledged is that
N.S.A. technicians,
> >>> besides
> >>>> actually eavesdropping on specific conversations,
have combed through
> >>> large
> >>>> volumes of phone and Internet traffic in search of
patterns that
might
> >>> point
> >>>> to terrorism suspects. Some officials describe the
program as a large
> >>>> data-mining operation.
> >>>>
> >>>> The current and former government officials who
discussed the program
> >>>> were
> >>>> granted anonymity because it remains classified.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bush administration officials declined to comment on
Friday on the
> >>> technical
> >>>> aspects of the operation and the N.S.A.'s use of
broad searches to
look
> >>> for
> >>>> clues on terrorists. Because the program is highly
classified, many
> >>> details
> >>>> of how the N.S.A. is conducting it remain unknown,
and members of
> >>>> Congress
> >>>> who have pressed for a full Congressional inquiry say
they are eager
to
> >>>> learn more about the program's operational details,
as well as its
> >>> legality.
> >>>>
> >>>> Officials in the government and the
telecommunications industry who
> >>>> have
> >>>> knowledge of parts of the program say the N.S.A. has sought to
analyze
> >>>> communications patterns to glean clues from details like who is
calling
> >>>> whom, how long a phone call lasts and what time of
day it is made,
and
> >>>> the
> >>>> origins and destinations of phone calls and e-mail
messages. Calls to
> >>>> and
> >>>> from Afghanistan, for instance, are known to have
been of particular
> >>>> interest to the N.S.A. since the Sept. 11 attacks,
the officials
said.
> >>>>
> >>>> This so-called "pattern analysis" on calls
within the United States
> >>>> would,
> >>>> in many circumstances, require a court warrant if the
government
wanted
> >>>> to
> >>>> trace who calls whom.
> >>>>
> >>>> The use of similar data-mining operations by the Bush
administration
in
> >>>> other contexts has raised strong objections, most notably in
connection
> >>> with
> >>>> the Total Information Awareness system, developed by
the Pentagon for
> >>>> tracking terror suspects, and the Department of
Homeland Security's
> >>>> Capps
> >>>> program for screening airline passengers. Both programs were
ultimately
> >>>> scrapped after public outcries over possible threats
to privacy and
> >>>> civil
> >>>> liberties
> >>>>
> >>>> But the Bush administration regards the N.S.A.'s
ability to trace and
> >>>> analyze large volumes of data as critical to its
expanded mission to
> >>> detect
> >>>> terrorist plots before they can be carried out,
officials familiar
with
> >>> the
> >>>> program say. Administration officials maintain that
the system set up
> >>>> by
> >>>> Congress in 1978 under the Foreign Intelligence
Surveillance Act does
> >>>> not
> >>>> give them the speed and flexibility to respond fully
to terrorist
> >>>> threats
> >>> at
> >>>> home.
> >>>>
> >>>> A former technology manager at a major
telecommunications company
said
> >>> that
> >>>> since the Sept. 11 attacks, the leading companies in
the industry
have
> >>> been
> >>>> storing information on calling patterns and giving it
to the federal
> >>>> government to aid in tracking possible terrorists.
> >>>>
> >>>> "All that data is mined with the cooperation of
the government and
> >>>> shared
> >>>> with them, and since 9/11, there's been much more
active involvement
in
> >>> that
> >>>> area," said the former manager, a
telecommunications expert who did
not
> >>> want
> >>>> his name or that of his former company used because
of concern about
> >>>> revealing trade secrets.
> >>>>
> >>>> Such information often proves just as valuable to the
government as
> >>>> eavesdropping on the calls themselves, the former manager said.
> >>>>
> >>>> "If they get content, that's useful to them too,
but the real plum is
> >>> going
> >>>> to be the transaction data and the traffic
analysis," he said.
"Massive
> >>>> amounts of traffic analysis information - who is
calling whom, who is
> >>>> in
> >>>> Osama Bin Laden's circle of family and friends - is
used to identify
> >>>> lines
> >>>> of communication that are then given closer scrutiny."
> >>>>
> >>>> Several officials said that after President Bush's
order authorizing
> >>>> the
> >>>> N.S.A. program, senior government officials arranged
with officials
of
> >>> some
> >>>> of the nation's largest telecommunications companies
to gain access
to
> >>>> switches that act as gateways at the borders between the United
States'
> >>>> communications networks and international networks.
The identities of
> >>>> the
> >>>> corporations involved could not be determined.
> >>>>
> >>>> The switches are some of the main arteries for moving
voice and some
> >>>> Internet traffic into and out of the United States,
and, with the
> >>>> globalization of the telecommunications industry in
recent years,
many
> >>>> international-to-international calls are also routed
through such
> >>>> American
> >>>> switches.
> >>>>
> >>>> One outside expert on communications privacy who
previously worked at
> >>>> the
> >>>> N.S.A. said that to exploit its technological capabilities, the
> >>>> American
> >>>> government had in the last few years been quietly
encouraging the
> >>>> telecommunications industry to increase the amount of
international
> >>> traffic
> >>>> that is routed through American-based switches.
> >>>>
> >>>> The growth of that transit traffic had become a major
issue for the
> >>>> intelligence community, officials say, because it had
not been fully
> >>>> addressed by 1970's-era laws and regulations
governing the N.S.A. Now
> >>>> that
> >>>> foreign calls were being routed through switches on
American soil,
some
> >>>> judges and law enforcement officials regarded
eavesdropping on those
> >>>> calls
> >>>> as a possible violation of those decades-old
restrictions, including
> >>>> the
> >>>> Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which requires
court-approved
> >>>> warrants for domestic surveillance.
> >>>>
> >>>> Historically, the American intelligence community has had close
> >>>> relationships with many communications and computer
firms and related
> >>>> technical industries. But the N.S.A.'s backdoor access to major
> >>>> telecommunications switches on American soil with the
cooperation of
> >>>> major
> >>>> corporations represents a significant expansion of the agency's
> >>> operational
> >>>> capability, according to current and former
government officials.
> >>>>
> >>>> Phil Karn, a computer engineer and technology expert
at a major West
> >>>> Coast
> >>>> telecommunications company, said access to such
switches would be
> >>>> significant. "If the government is gaining
access to the switches
like
> >>> this,
> >>>> what you're really talking about is the capability of
an enormous
> >>>> vacuum
> >>>> operation to sweep up data," he said.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>

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