greg1199{at}yahoo.com wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> > corresponding with a 'career-oriented' single early 40's woman in
> online
> > dating.  I asked if she was interested in meeting one night after
> work for a
> > cup of coffee as she indicated she enjoys a good cup of coffee.
What
> I had
> > in mind was a starbucks, or something cheaper...nothing extravagant
> as it
> > was a first date. She said "Coffee or a drink sounds good".   So,
we
> agreed
>
> She gave it away right there.

Could you be specific?  You mean she was trolling for a drink
(expensive cocktail?)

> > to meet near her office (in NYC)...  so she picked a restaurant
that
> caters
> > to the Broadway musical crowd.

Let's first have him learn the right lessons.  What is SHE doing
picking the F'ing restaurant?  If he's in charge, then
he should have picked Starbucks AND he should have
then chosen the coffee-of-the-day (and offered her
the option of decaf).

I was reading an amusing article on askmen.com (check
out this P-whipped guy)

http://www.askmen.com/dating/dating_top_ten_100/102_dating_list.html

What I love best is how the guy indulges golddiggers
by telling the poor bastards to not even
use coupons if they go out.  A nice girl isn't
going to mind.  But I think the lesson of soc.men
is that women have hardwired biological ways
of doing things and this includes men being
the providers.  If she just wants a token
of this, then a cheap first date will satisfy her.

Warning: I tried the above when I was dating in California
and it worked: Lots of women loved "cheap" dates
and consequently, I moved to "second base" very
quickly.

However, the gals who were users just bided their time
and showed themselves later.  The key was that they
had to really go out of their way to do so.  (They
usually started trying to dump their problems on
me right away OR they were complaining I didn't
take them out to expensive restaurants.  I told
them politely, NO, and when one didn't listen I
dumped her.  She took it quite nastily.)

> We get in and she orders a glass of
> > wine....I was planning on a coffee, but to be social, I followed
her
> lead

Mistake number 2.

You're being a "sensitive" guy and letting her tell you
how things are going to be done and you're
also being the provider at the same time.  You
set yourself up to be a chump, not her.

If you didn't know the neighborhood, then you should
have done some research (if this relationship was
important enough to you to pay a few bucks for it)
and at least asked a taxicab driver where the nearest
starbucks was.

> > and had a glass of wine.  We exchanged pleasant conversation and
the
> bill
> > arrived and being the man, I naturally offered to pay and she
didn't
> offer
> > too much resistance to my magnanimous gesture.....anyways,   a
glass
> of wine
>
> I believe you offered to pay because you felt obligated to pay, and
> like you would not be a gentleman unless you paid.  I have to fight
> this too.  It's also awkward to go through your wallet and find the
> right amount of cash, and one is terribly self-conscious while doing
> it.

I hate to give the devil her due, but he gave her the leash and collar
and she put it on him.  He did invite her out and give her the choice
of what to buy on his wallet.  He came across as a chump.

If I might make a few suggestions... I think if he's paying
for a date, even a cheap one, as I said in the other article
he should get a lot more than "pleasant conversation".  Starbucks
makes good coffee for a lousy 2 bucks (refills 75 cents).
For that, he can get the privilege of having her hold his arm,
hold her chair out for her (with plenty of people watching),
and then go straight for serious discussion.  She knows
what's on his mind, yes?  If he bullshits about what's
playing in the movie theater next door, she's going to
think he's a wanker who doesn't have the guts to tell
her what he wants.

This doesn't mean he's going to get into her pants right there.
He might need to take her out on a few more dates
so she can feel comfortable with him but they can
also be very cheap or even out of his home (maybe make
her a picnic or BBQ or video.)

> I offer a suggestion.  When you would normally ask for the check, ask
> for separate checks.  In about two seconds, you absolve yourself of
her
> obligation, and there is really no way she can argue.  This gives her
> no time to fumble through her purse and pretend to have nothing.

I tried this.  Unfortunately, I often got stuck with women who
were desperate or the women went along and still saw me
but resented it the whole time.

> Of course, she probably won't like that, but it doesn't really matter
> if she likes it.  You like it.  It's best to have an attitude that
> you'll do as you like, and she can take or leave it.

I have my doubts about this method, but the good thing about it
is that if he goes on half a dozen dates and the woman storms
off in anger, at least she's not taking his balls with her.

> Also, try to avoid profiles that say "career oriented."

If it's a personal-ad date, this may be helpful because the
woman will at least respect the guy as having balls rather
than chumps  she was able to score 20 buck drinks off of
(she gets hundreds of those.)

If you get the split check and she has her eyes aglowing with
anger, it may help to explain to her that you don't
want her to feel that your just "buying" a relationship.
That puts her in the hot seat of proving such an idea
wrong.

> A woman can be
> career oriented without shouting it from the rooftops.  Those two
> words, in her profile, essentially translate thusly.  "I am callous,
> bitchy, and carrying enough emotional baggage to ground a 747.  If
> you're lucky, I'll let you carry it for me."
> [...]

What really makes me laugh were the gals who had the nerve
to say they were "liberal" politically AND wanted a tall professional
(presumably to buy them drinks)  Good F'ing luck!

regards,
Mark Sobolewski



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