TIP: Click on subject to list as thread! ANSI
echo: pol_inc
to: Bob Klahn
from: Earl Croasmun
date: 2009-06-14 14:42:46
subject: RE: Re-examining Torture

~>  EC> Oh, by the way, you did make a feeble attempt to suggest
~>  EC> that Chase Nielsen got "the same method" that the US used
~>  EC> on three terrorists six years ago. Wallach selectively
~>  EC> quoted Nielsen in a manner that made it appear that way to
~>  EC> the uninformed, perhaps, but it is not true.  A more
~>  EC> complete description was given in the book _The Doolittle
~>  EC> Raid_, by Schultz, p. 233, concerning the interrogation of
~>  EC> Nielsen, Meder, and Hallmark:
 
~>  EC> "The water torture was first.  The men were tied and
~>  EC> stretched flat on their backs on the floor with guards
~>  EC> holding their legs.  Water was forced into their mouths and
~>  EC> noses until they passed out; it was not unlike drowning.
~>  EC> The Japanese would force the water out, usually by jumping
~>  EC> on their stomachs.  When they revived, brought back from
~>  EC> the point of death, they were stretched out again and the
~>  EC> process was repeated.  The Kempei Tai knew exactly how far
~>  EC> to go before reviving them."

Yep, that was what was done to Neilsen, and worse.

But you forgot the rest of it:

It was established, for example, in the judgment of the International
Military Tribunal - Far East, in Chapter 8, p. 1059: "To indicate the
prevalence of torture and the uniformity of the methods employed we give a
brief summary of these methods.

The so-called "water treatment" was commonly applied. The victim was bound
or otherwise secured in a prone position; and water was forced through his
mouth and nostrils into his lungs and stomach until he lost consciousness.
Pressure was then applied, sometimes by jumping upon his abdomen to force
the water out. The usual practice was to revive the victim and successively
repeat the process. There was evidence that this torture was used in the
following places: China, at Shanghai, Peiping and Nanking; French
Indo-China, at Hanoi and Saigon; Malaya, at Singapore; Burma, at Kyaikto;
Thailand, at Chumporn; Andaman Islands, at Port Blair; Borneo, at
Jesselton; Sumatra, at Medan, Tadjong Karang and Palembank; Java, at
Batavia, Bandung, Soerabaja and Buitennzong; Celebes, at Makassar;
Portuguese Timor, at Ossu and Dilli; Philippines, at Manila, Nichols Field,
Palo Beach and Dumaguete; Formosa, at Camp Haito; and in Japan, at Tokyo."

THAT is the practice that YOU claim is identical to what was done by the US
to three terrorists six years ago.  "During WW2 both forms were used by the
Japanese, and Japanese military personell, and some civilians, were
prosecuted for using the same method the US interrogators."  And for all of
your blithering and diversions, you cannot show that it is even close to
being "the same."
 
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