-=> Quoting Sondra Ball to Jim Casto <=-
 SB> I don't do the internet, but am developing a theory that most of the
 SB> folks that talk on the native conferences on BBSes are not native.  A
 SB> couple of the net groups are gated over to a BBS system, and I see a
 SB> similar thing there.  There used to be a number of natives on Indian
 SB> Affairs.  Most of them quit for one reason or another, and religion
 SB> (read New Agism) discussion *was* one of the biggie reasons for
 SB> exiting.
 Interesting. On one of the commercial services the only active discussions
 are under the "Native American Religion" 'banner'. And one of the most
 active and vocal participants _used_ to be here on IA and many "old timers"
 know him well.
 SB> I know there are some private groups (invitation only) that
 SB> are pretty much all native, but not having an internet link, I can't
 SB> get myself invited into any of them.
 We each have our priorities, including financial or whatever. I, have been
 a member of "private" discussion groups, but they were not _just_ for NAs.
 However, the same situation applies. "Nobody" talks about "anything".
 
 SB> I've noticed that, too.  The death of Michael Dorris did get discussed
 SB> on TMT, however; and a bit on a writers' conference I belong to.  I
 SB> was very saddened by it.  I think it got discussed more on the writers'
 SB> conference than on any native conference, however.
 
 I guess I was more concerned over that fact that Michael was involved in
 education. (If I am not mistaken he was one of the primary "movers" in the
 Native American Studies program at Dartmouth.)
 
 SB> That's true.  Not even I discuss these things much anymore.  I don't
 SB> even do the biting satires about native issues anymore, like I used
 SB> to. Partly, I think, it's because there are so few natives here.
 
 Then why are _we_ here if not to discuss "Indian Affairs"? Besides there
 are _lots_ of issues that could affect non-NAs depending on their outcome.
 Education, gaming, taxation, business, etc.
 
 JC> Several months ago I mentioned Sherman Alexie's newest book, "Indian 
Killer
 > I think _one_ person indicated they had read it.
 SB> Probably me.  I fell in love with it.  And disagreed with those
 SB> critics that thought John Smith did the murders.  He really didn't, you
 SB> know. 
 
 I know.
 SB> Actually, you can't discuss art of any type without getting a least on
 SB> the outskirts of spirituality, unless you are discussing the
 SB> technicalities of the art.
 
 Well, yes and no. On the aforementioned commercial service, I mentioned
 "Native Peoples" magazine whose banner reads "... the arts & lifeways of
 native peoples of the Americas". Hardly anyone had even _heard_ of the
 magazine. Even after they (Media Concepts) opened up their website, there
 was little to no discussion. (And from this commercial service members
 _can_ get to the Internet.)
 
 SB> I grew up eating fiddleheads.  They're great steamed and served with a
 SB> little butter.  So I won't answer the question.
 
 There was also a recipe in "Native Peoples" magazine using them in a salad
 as I recall. I think they have a slightly bitter taste myself.
 
 SB> Grin!  Someday I'm going to get on the internet, and join all these
 SB> neat groups (for a month or two until I get bored).
 
 Those discussions I am talking about were/are on a commercial service. I
 doubt that it will take you a month to be bored.  It only took me a few
 days.  I can only be "bored" for so long in so many places.  In some
 cases, I see them as a "soap opera". Tune in once a year and they will be 
he
 same as they were a year ago.  I haven't downloaded some of the NA
 newsgroups off the Internet lately because I just _know_ it will be the
 same old stuff as last week or the week before.
 
 JC> If you can get others to talk about something they don't seem to be
 > interested in, I'm all for it and would like to know the secret.
 SB> I'll work on it. (g)
 Well, you might have to hurry. As school is winding down (last school exam
 is June 5) and my last day on the job before I retire is a week later on the
 12th, I will probably get back to my hobby of genealogy and family history
 and won't have time for this echo unless some discussions start to prove to
 be worthwhile time-wise. As for an answer to a "How Much Have I Learned
 From All These Discussion Groups In the Last Two and a Half Years?" 
question. 
 Very, very little, I'm afraid.
 
 To recap what _my_ "theory" and observation has been over the last probably
 five years or so (experience with two commercial services, IA and a few
 Internet discussion groups) when it comes to participating in those
 discussion groups related to NA topics, in most/many cases, the few NAs (or
 knowledgable non-NAs) _wait_ in the "woodlurk" for some unsuspecting
 "newbie" to come along and then they "pounce". (Not saying that in a
 disrespectful manner, just stating what I observe.) It's back to my
 "nobody" scenario.
 What I _wish_ would happen is that the discussion groups would be so
 _busy_ discussing _other_ NA issues that they don't have _time_ to deal
 with the "spirituality" and "religious" issues. For example: on the
 commercial service I mentioned previously, the "new agers" and the "we
 are all connected and walk in beauty" folks have their own groups and
 those "in the know" pretty much leave them alone. Are there "real" NAs
 there? They say they are. Do _I_ care? Nope. I don't have _time_ to _deal_
 with that issue.
 [BTW, that same phenomena occurs on a local level. NAs and "those in the
 know" are too busy dealing with _real_ issues (like earning a living
 and education) to get caught up in spending a lot of time dealing with
 "non-issues" like "Heavenly Shooting Star" is conducting a "medicine
 wheel and sundance in the sweatlodge" ceremony during the next full moon.
 "HSS" will simply be ignored for the most part and eventually she will be
 supplanted by the "real" things the local NAs _want_ to share like "First
 Salmon Feasts", "Root Festivals", etc. The locals even tend to get a little
 irritated when "outsiders" (NAs or not) start sticking their collective
 noses into local issues or try to _appear_ like they are "locals" and not
 from "out-of-town".]
 An example of a worthwhile discussion I am involved in on the commercial
 service has to do with NA (and non-NA) businesses on (and off)
 reservations. There seems to be a HUGE difference between Oregon and New
 Mexico when it comes to dealing with these issues from both the NA _and_
 the non-NA perspective.
 But back to the online discussion groups... 
 It's not the "reading" that occupies so much time, it's the verbose
 replies.  I am really sslllllllooooooowwwww.  Just this post has
 taken me well over an hour. 
 
 And you know as well as I that when someone truly "participates" they
 are usually "learning" by researching and composing their questions and/or
 replies. But it's really easy to just sit back and let someone else spend 
 _their_ time "researching and composing".
 
 The old "let someone else do it" syndrome.
 Jim
--- Blue Wave v2.12
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