From: "Rich Gauszka" 

And many a neocon has the courage to sit at home sending others off to war.
When given the opportunity to serve ( ala Cheney ) they then say they had
better things to do at the time.


"Gary Britt"  wrote in message
news:442b042c{at}w3....
> They had the courage of their stupid and not so well founded ideas.  Many
> a
> liberal has the courage to protest OTHER people fighting.
>
> Gary
>
> "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
news:442afec3{at}w3....
>> And you don't think it took courage for them to show up in the audience?
>> Many times the brave oppose current public sentiment.
>>
>>
>> "Gary Britt"  wrote in message
>> news:442afde7{at}w3....
>> > I'm attacking the group of idiots showing up at the Supreme Court
> audience
>> > and some of the statements they have made that show ignorance of the
>> > law
>> > and
>> > their positions.  Like I said, most of these would be losers who
> couldn't
>> > cut it in real life and joined the JAG because it was the only lawyer
> job
>> > they could get and NOT because they shared the same feelings as the
> brave
>> > soldiers who volunteer to actually put themselves in harms way.
>> >
>> > Gary
>> >
>> > "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message
> news:442aefd4{at}w3....
>> >> So why are you attacking the military lawyer that was assigned to
> defend
>> >> Hamden?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> "Gary Britt" 
wrote in message
>> >> news:442aed50{at}w3....
>> >> > That they are enemy combatants to be dealt with by
the Military.
> They
>> >> > aren't even entitled to a military tribunal, but for
the Supreme
>> >> > Court's
>> >> > unconstitutional meddling and ignoring of the last
150 years of
>> > precedent.
>> >> >
>> >> > Gary
>> >> >
>> >> > "Rich Gauszka" 
wrote in message
>> > news:442ae7fd{at}w3....
>> >> >> As far as I'm concerned Navy Lt. Cmdr. Charles
Swift is a credit to
>> >> >> his
>> >> >> uniform. What's the policy matter above Swifts's
pay grade? That
>> >> >> the
>> >> > people
>> >> >> held are to all be found guilty so not to
embarrass the Bushies?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>> >> >> news:442adf0b{at}w3....
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > "Rich Gauszka"
 wrote in message
>> >> > news:442abb2b{at}w3....
>> >> >> >> No Gary - Navy Lt. Cmdr. Charles
Swift's a military layer
> assigned
>> > to
>> >> >> > DEFEND
>> >> >> >> Hamden. What would you have him do roll
over and play dead like
>> >> >> >> a
>> > good
>> >> >> >> neocon?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0603290179mar29,1,2440889.
story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > A defense of Hamdan doesn't require
questioning the venue for a
>> > review
>> >> > nor
>> >> >> > does it require grandstanding at the court
over policy matters
> that
>> > are
>> >> >> > 100
>> >> >> > levels above his pay grade.  Nor does it
require bullshit
> posturing
>> >> > about
>> >> >> > applicability of a bill of rights to
prisoners of war and enemy
>> >> >> > combatants.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Justice Anthony Kennedy, usually a
swing vote on the court,
> worried
>> >> > that
>> >> >> > "if
>> >> >> >> the president can do this . . . he can
set up commissions in
> Toledo
>> > .
>> >> >> >> .
>> >> > .
>> >> >> >> and pick up an alien and not have any
trial at all except before
>> > that
>> >> >> >> special commission
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > And the problem with this would be what? 
If an alien german
>> > operative
>> >> >> > were
>> >> >> > found in Toledo during world war II would
Justice Kennedy find a
>> >> >> > problem
>> >> >> > with incarceration and military tribunals
then?  I don't think
>> >> >> > so,
>> > and
>> >> >> > this
>> >> >> > is no different.  In my view the Supreme
Court is without
>> >> >> > constitutional
>> >> >> > authority to tell the President SQUAT on
his exercise of
>> >> >> > commander
>> >> >> > in
>> >> >> > chief
>> >> >> > functions to defend this country at a time
of war.  Let justice
>> > Kennedy
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> > the other liberals on the court show up at
a military base and
>> >> >> > try
>> >> >> > to
>> >> > free
>> >> >> > these enemy combatants and Bush should
follow Lincoln's example
> and
>> > put
>> >> >> > them
>> >> >> > in a military prison the way Lincoln put a
federal district judge
> in
>> >> >> > prison
>> >> >> > for trying to interfere where he has no
constitutional authority.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> "Gary Britt"
 wrote in message
>> >> >> >> news:442ab662{at}w3....
>> >> >> >> > The Bill of Rights IS IRRELEVANT
when it comes to enemy
>> >> >> >> > combatants
>> >> >> >> > captured
>> >> >> >> > on the battlefield.   As justice
Scalia pointed out to some
>> >> >> >> > pointy
>> >> >> > headed
>> >> >> >> > EU
>> >> >> >> > trash in Switzerland recently,
Germans brought not to a base
>> > OUTSIDE
>> >> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> > USA
>> >> >> >> > but directly to prison camps
INSIDE the USA did NOT have
>> >> >> >> > rights
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> > any
>> >> >> >> > kind
>> >> >> >> > of trial or hearing in USA courts.
 It would be "crazy" to
> assert
>> >> >> >> > otherwise.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > If these few military lawyers
brainwashed by the liberal
>> > educations
>> >> >> >> > they
>> >> >> >> > received (and who likely became
military lawyers because they
>> >> > couldn't
>> >> >> > cut
>> >> >> >> > it in the real world) don't like
the military acting like the
>> >> > military,
>> >> >> >> > they
>> >> >> >> > should get the hell out of the
military and go to work for
> scraps
>> >> >> >> > for
>> >> >> > some
>> >> >> >> > public interest legal group or the ACLU.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > The Bill of Rights applies to
citizens and in a fairly limited
>> >> > context
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> > non-citizens present in the
country.  It does NOT apply and
>> >> >> >> > has
>> >> >> >> > NEVER
>> >> >> >> > applied to prisoners of war and
enemy combatants.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Gary
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > "Rich Gauszka"
 wrote in message
>> >> >> >> > news:442a8c21$1{at}w3....
>> >> >> >> >> "If you believe that
these are full and fair trials, you
> believe
>> >> > that
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> Bill of Rights is
irrelevant," Hamdan's Pentagon-appointed
>> > defense
>> >> >> >> > attorney,
>> >> >> >> >> Navy Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift,
declared on the front steps of
> the
>> >> >> >> >> marble-columned courthouse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/politics/14208166.htm
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> "The commission is
operating in totally uncharted waters;
>> >> >> >> >> it's
>> >> >> >> >> charging
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> violation in a stateless,
territorial-less conflict,
>> >> >> >> >> something
>> >> >> >> >> which
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> full laws of war have never
applied," replied Katyal, a
>> > Georgetown
>> >> >> >> >> University Law Center
professor who was a clerk for Justice
>> > Stephen
>> >> >> >> >> Breyer
>> >> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> decade ago.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Uniformed American military
officers were scattered
>> >> >> >> >> throughout
>> > the
>> >> >> >> > gallery,
>> >> >> >> >> among them lawyers from all
four services - Marines, Air
> Force,
>> >> >> >> >> Army
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> Navy - who in effect mutinied
against their commander in
>> >> >> >> >> chief
>> >> >> >> >> by
>> >> >> >> >> alleging
>> >> >> >> >> that Bush's commissions strip
foreign captives of fundamental
>> >> > rights.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> "If you believe that
these are full and fair trials, you
> believe
>> >> > that
>> >> >> > the
>> >> >> >> >> Bill of Rights is
irrelevant," Hamdan's Pentagon-appointed
>> > defense
>> >> >> >> > attorney,
>> >> >> >> >> Navy Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift,
declared on the front steps of
> the
>> >> >> >> >> marble-columned courthouse.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Retired military officers,
civil liberties lawyers, former
>> >> >> >> >> diplomats
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> international law experts all
filed briefs on behalf of the
>> >> >> >> >> 36-year-old
>> >> >> >> >> Yemeni with a fourth-grade
education, arguing that the Bush
>> >> >> >> >> administration
>> >> >> >> >> went too far by creating a
commission outside an explicit
>> > framework
>> >> >> >> >> set
>> >> >> >> > out
>> >> >> >> >> by Congress and ignoring many
of the protections of U.S.
>> >> >> >> >> military
>> >> >> >> >> justice,
>> >> >> >> >> which has a provision for tribunals.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> The justices seemed especially
intrigued with the nature of
> the
>> >> > crime
>> >> >> >> >> alleged, conspiring with
al-Qaida. At least four justices
> asked
>> >> >> > questions
>> >> >> >> >> related to the charge.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Katyal called the conspiracy
charge so broad and unfocused
> that
>> > "a
>> >> >> > little
>> >> >> >> >> old lady in Switzerland who
donates money to al-Qaida, and
> that
>> >> > turns
>> >> >> > out
>> >> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >> be a front for terrorist acts
... might be swept up within
> this
>> >> > broad
>> >> >> >> >> definition. That's why
international law has so rejected the
>> >> >> >> >> concept
>> >> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> >> conspiracy."
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Clement argued that the court
shouldn't even be considering
> the
>> >> >> >> >> case
>> >> >> >> > because
>> >> >> >> >> Bush had signed a law Dec. 30
that effectively stripped
>> > Guantanamo
>> >> >> >> > captives
>> >> >> >> >> of pre-commission habeas
corpus challenge.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Some justices focused on
whether Congress intentionally or
>> >> >> > inadvertently
>> >> >> >> >> suspended the Writ of Habeas
Corpus for captives in Cuba;
>> >> >> >> >> Clement
>> >> >> > argued
>> >> >> >> >> that Congress' intent was
irrelevant, an argument that seemed
> to
>> >> > find
>> >> >> >> > favor
>> >> >> >> >> from Justice Antonin Scalia,
for whom Clement once clerked.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Hamdan claims through his
lawyers that he never joined
> al-Qaida,
>> >> >> >> >> wasn't
>> >> >> > a
>> >> >> >> >> warrior and was merely a
civilian driver who earned $200 a
> month
>> >> >> > driving
>> >> >> >> >> a
>> >> >> >> >> pickup from bin Laden's
private farm. His lawyer said Afghan
>> >> >> >> >> militiamen
>> >> >> >> >> captured him along the Afghan
border in 2001, after he
> evacuated
>> >> >> >> >> his
>> >> >> >> >> pregnant wife and 2-year-old
daughter to Pakistan, and turned
>> >> >> >> >> him
>> >> > over
>> >> >> > to
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> U.S. troops who sent him to Guantanamo.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Breyer asked what would stop
the president from "picking up
>> >> >> >> >> an
>> >> > alien"
>> >> >> > and
>> >> >> >> >> holding the same type of trial
in Toledo, Ohio.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> Justice Anthony Kennedy
questioned whether Hamdan wasn't
>> > "uniquely
>> >> >> >> >> vulnerable," and
therefore not entitled to certain
>> > prisoner-of-war
>> >> >> >> >> considerations under the
Geneva Conventions.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> "I don't think he's
protected by the Geneva Conventions, but
>> > that's
>> >> >> >> > largely
>> >> >> >> >> because he chose not to comply
with the basic laws of war,"
>> > Clement
>> >> >> > said.
>> >> >> >> >> "Nobody has a claim here
that they were part of the uniformed
>> >> > al-Qaida
>> >> >> >> >> division that complied with
all of the laws of war such that
>> >> >> >> >> they
>> >> > are
>> >> >> >> >> entitled to POW status."
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

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