ml>  NB> but it's only to show you that whatever reader/editor you're using
ml>  NB> is what messed the quote up. But it might very well not be the
ml>  NB> reader/editor you're using, either.
ml> 
ml> yes.. the one that caused the mess above (which i've removed for this
ml> reply) is not the one i use... it was already messed up when i wrote my
ml> reply... it is also messed up like that in the RAW PKT file that
ml> delivered it to my system...

Below you asked me about RAW format, this is what I was talking about. The
raw packet file that's delivered to your system from a Synchronet system,
could very well contain the rest of the lines that were originally cut off
for viewing. If that's the case, it's still wrong, of course, but at least
moves us a little further in the case of fixing the issue. :|

ml> i will also note that i specifically did not attempt to manually fix the
ml> quote in question as i tend to do most of the time... there were just too
ml> many missing parts for me to remember them all and i don't have the
ml> capability on this point system to go back in another reader to view the
ml> original when i'm writing a reply...

You shouldn't have to fix anything. We have no advanced standards here, as
they're all left as proposals.. BECAUSE, there's nothing we can do about
older software that's not developed anymore, but still loved and used by
many.

ml>  NB> Mainly, this is so you have a little more knowledge in the argument
ml>  NB> involving you, Carol, and the others in another echo.
ml> 
ml> understood... and GoodOnYou for trying to understand what's going on
ml> and why...

Hey, I also mentioned the fact that SMB isn't supported in any of their
software. If it was, I'd bet more sysops would be inclined to use it.

What would be even nicer, is if it could be ran as an external program (not
necessarily a "door" but actually shelling out and running the program, and
when done, exits back to the BBS (ie: I can run nano and vi from
Synchronet, but cannot run GoldEd or any of the other variants).

ml>  NB> The original reply from Richard seemed to have cut the text off at
ml>  NB> the end of the lines. 
ml> 
ml> yup... that's due to the editor he used... it creates what is/was known
ml> as chainsaw replies... basically, it doesn't word wrap and reflow the
ml> existing quotes... instead it chops off text at its line limit and then
ml> quotes that... this is a very old problem and it indicative of what some
ml> term as "lazy coding"...

It would be nice to know what editor he's using exactly. It could just be a
configuration option he hasn't enabled. Deuce's JSEditor has the option to
wrap lines, and the one I use on Synchronet (Slyedit) has the same option.

ml> on important item to note is that one set of quotes has two leading
ml> spaces which throws off other quoting software such that they don't
ml> recognize the quote... this is another coding problem... one that can be
ml> handled by peeking at the characters specifically looking for the '>'
ml> character and adjusting the quote and reflow as needed... but this goes
ml> back to that "lazy coding" thing ;)

I'm actually in multiple emails with the developer of the external editor I
use for Synchronet. He might be on board, but has no definitive action on
how to do it. I've told him the only way for him to see GoldEd or variants
in action, would be to setup a VM with a separate mailer, tosser, etc.,
since Synchronet's message base format isn't supported. So we're kind of at
a wall here.

ml>  NB> Maybe what was cut off was actually saved in RAW format, 
ml> 
ml> "RAW format"??

Yeah, described just like you did above.

ml>  NB> If this is the case, it's probably one of Synchronet's external 
ml>  NB> editors (can't really blame Synchronet, as there is no "default 
ml>  NB> editor" for it).
ml> 
ml> agreed... this was the point of contention a while back when the
ml> synchronet maintainer, rob swindel, was "brought" into the
FIDONEWS echo
ml> when i and others were discussing this specific problem in there... that
ml> discussion, as it were, then branched off to synchronet's MSGID stuff in
ml> which is creates a MSGID for messages that do not have a MSGID... sadly
ml> rob left before he saw my reply to him with the evidence of /that/
ml> particular problem... at least there was never any acknowledgement of it
ml> by anyone involved in that discussion... i've been keeping an eye on the
ml> synchronet CVS/SVN/GIT/whatever and have not really seen anything that
ml> would indicate a fix for either problem... not until maybe in the last
ml> day or so but i haven't followed up on that either...

I brought him there, so I know what it was all about. I can't stand arguing
for another, when the other is just as active, if not more, than I am, and
especially still currently developing for his software.

I thought the MSGID thing was fixed. Granted, 90% of people don't actually
upgrade Synchronet every time something is fixed (since it's 100% CVS, with
no actual physical releases. I definitely DO remember him doing something
before he left the conversation.. and I thought it was this.

The reason he left the conversation so abruptly, is because his RC was
being changed at that exact time. He lost at least 3-4 messages he posted
to you (never made it to FIDONEWS), and by that time, he wasn't willing to
post them again, unfortunately.

ml> as for synchronet not having a "default" editor, is there
not something
ml> that does come with it for those system that want to run bare naked
ml> synchronet as delivered? all of the bbs software that i've even seen has
ml> had some sort of default editor, whether internal or external... it was
ml> there in the initial package and the editor used when there was no
ml> other... the bbs software i use, granted it is a beta that desperately
ml> needs an update that is unlikely to come forth, has a line editor as its
ml> default editor... this line editor is akin to the old DOS edlin tool...

I'm not sure what it comes with nowadays, as I've run it for quite awhile,
and have upgraded via CVS many times. If I remember right, it only came
with some old stuff like Pine, and a couple others. Basically crappy text
editors like you mention. JSEditor (made by Deuce aka Stephen Hurd) is
promoted, of course, and it might be included now, but I can't answer that
honestly. The one I use on my Synchronet system, is non-default, but the
developer made it specifically to clone IceEdit and DCTEdit of old.. which
it does perfectly. Those two editors did NOT add initials to quotes.

So now I'm trying to convince him to do that. :)

ml> i don't have a problem with it... i am always trying to help others see
ml> and understand the problems that are visible out there... i've never
ml> touted anything i run as being completely fault-free or perfect,
ml> either... but that gets missed, too, and in some cases, like what
ml> happened previously, some try to use it as a weapon against me... oh
ml> well... they can fix their software whereas i cannot... not without a
ml> huge alteration in my production system which has been in operation since
ml> the late '80's or so...

I think it was only used as a weapon against you because you were
complaining about another software with the same issues. Yes, you use a
sysop reader/editor, but any of your users post, and there will be the same
issues coming from your system.

Basically, I do believe Rob is following more standards than proposals. All
we can do is politely ask for some of these proposals to be added to the
current development, which I'm slowly doing, but I also don't want to be
ignored in the process.

Oddly enough, Mystic is completely pascal, and seems to quote pretty damn
good as far as the new proposals. Oddly enough, this software has been
doing it since it's birth. :)

--- Mystic BBS v1.10 A21 (Linux)