cv wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:51:29 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
>
> >
> > cv wrote:
> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:49:35 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > cv wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:01:37 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hardpan wrote:
> >> >> >> THE RULES
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is undoubtedly one of the saddest things
I've ever read.
> >> >>
> >> >> I take it that you haven't heard of the bestseller
"The Rules"
by
> >> > Ellen
> >> >> Fein, Sherrie Schneider? This book set the ball rolling by
> > promising
> >> > to
> >> >> teach women the power-play needed to snag a man. Or were you
less
> >> > saddened
> >> >> by that?
> >> >>
> >> >> Besides, women's magazines are overflowing with tricks to hook
> > guys,
> >> > are
> >> >> you saddened by that too?
> >> >>
> >> >> > Life is
> >> >> > short, and uncertain, and there's no guarantee
that there's
> >> > anything
> >> >> > beyond this life -- so to spend precious time on such
bitterness
> > is
> >> >> > such a terrible waste of time and energy.
> >> >>
> >> >> Check out alt.seduction.fast or www.fastseduction.com. These
guys
> > are
> >> >> busy refining their "rules" and are
delighted with the results.
> > They
> >> > are
> >> >> not bitter in the least. This stuff works very well,
apparently,
> >> > which is
> >> >> quite a commentary on the modern western woman.
> >> >>
> >> >> Weren't you of the opinion that women were not responsible for
> > taking
> >> >> advantage of men's chivalry? Isn't it ironic that a
person such
as
> >> > you
> >> >> should feel sad on reading a few "rules"?
> >> >>
> >> >> -CV
> >> >
> >> > Whether it's bitterness by women aimed at men, at other women or
at
> >> > themselves - or bitterness by men aimed at women, at other men
or
> > at
> >> > themselves -- it's always sad.
> >>
> >> But these guys are hardly bitter, if anything they are relieved
and
> >> excited. Whatever bitterness they do exhibit is limited to their
past
> >> experiences as nice-guys who were taken advantage of.
> >>
> >> Besides, women's magazines are dripping with "relationship
advice",
> > would
> >> you also describe them as dripping with bitterness? That would
make a
> >> large population of western women bitter with men.
> >>
> >> I think you have this whole bitterness thing wrong.
> >>
> >> -CV
> >
> > You seem to have a problem with an assertion central to most of my
> > posts, that men and women are both capable of the best and the
worst.
> >
> > These guys either are or aren't bitter - your first two sentences
seem
> > to contradict each other, because they can't be both.
>
> Okay, my second sentence should have read "Whatever RESIDUAL
bitterness
> they do exhibit..."

I'm not saying I don't understand bitterness, I certainly have felt the
emotion on occasion. I'm just saying I'd rather not stay there,
bitterness to me seems to be righteous anger turned inward and gone
sour.

> Like most things, bitterness isn't all or nothing, people can be
> bitter to various degrees. Many, if not most, people are mildly
bitter
> about something. But bitterness is hardly the central emotion that
you
> detect by reading these seductionists' writings.

It may not be the central emotion that you detect, but we disagree
there. Maybe if it had been a post saying "women are such lovely, soft
warm creatures and if you want to sleep with a whole bunch of them,
here are some things you can do to achieve that end, and make it a
mutually pleasurable experience" it wouldn't have struck me as mean and
bitter. And I realize "bitter" is overused here, but this certainly
seemed to me to be an appropriate use of the word.

Because it's not the seduction angle I'm against - I'm as much for
good, bountiful sex as the next person. I'd just feel less good about
myself as a person if I had to denigrate someone to get it.

> > They may
> > certainly be bitter in addition to other things, such as relieved
and
> > excited (at the thought of all those cowed women they'll soon be
> > bedding) but the bitterness shines through, at least it does in my
> > opinion, which apparently differs quite markedly from yours.
>
> Our opinions sure do differ. Do you also detect bitterness in the
> relationship advice columns in women's magazines? I mean, it does
exist,
> but is that the central emotion you detect? I would be amazed if you
did.

Sadness, bitterness, all kinds of emotions. I'm not a fan of women's
magazines, neither the feminist nor the traditionalist variety. Though
I must say I'd rather read anger than bitterness or sadness, both of
them seem to be victimist kinds of feelings to me.



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