mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com wrote:

> greg1199{at}yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>Jim wrote:
>>
>>>corresponding with a 'career-oriented' single early 40's woman in
>>
>>online
>>
>>>dating.  I asked if she was interested in meeting one night after
>>
>>work for a
>>
>>>cup of coffee as she indicated she enjoys a good cup of coffee.
>
> What
>
>>I had
>>
>>>in mind was a starbucks, or something cheaper...nothing extravagant
>>
>>as it
>>
>>>was a first date. She said "Coffee or a drink sounds
good".   So,
>
> we
>
>>agreed
>>
>>She gave it away right there.
>
>
> Could you be specific?  You mean she was trolling for a drink
> (expensive cocktail?)
>
>
>>>to meet near her office (in NYC)...  so she picked a restaurant
>
> that
>
>>caters
>>
>>>to the Broadway musical crowd.
>
>
> Let's first have him learn the right lessons.  What is SHE doing
> picking the F'ing restaurant?  If he's in charge, then
> he should have picked Starbucks AND he should have
> then chosen the coffee-of-the-day (and offered her
> the option of decaf).
>
> I was reading an amusing article on askmen.com (check
> out this P-whipped guy)
>
> http://www.askmen.com/dating/dating_top_ten_100/102_dating_list.html
>
> What I love best is how the guy indulges golddiggers
> by telling the poor bastards to not even
> use coupons if they go out.  A nice girl isn't
> going to mind.  But I think the lesson of soc.men
> is that women have hardwired biological ways
> of doing things and this includes men being
> the providers.  If she just wants a token
> of this, then a cheap first date will satisfy her.
>
> Warning: I tried the above when I was dating in California
> and it worked: Lots of women loved "cheap" dates
> and consequently, I moved to "second base" very
> quickly.
>
> However, the gals who were users just bided their time
> and showed themselves later.  The key was that they
> had to really go out of their way to do so.  (They
> usually started trying to dump their problems on
> me right away OR they were complaining I didn't
> take them out to expensive restaurants.  I told
> them politely, NO, and when one didn't listen I
> dumped her.  She took it quite nastily.)
>
>
>>We get in and she orders a glass of
>>
>>>wine....I was planning on a coffee, but to be social, I followed
>
> her
>
>>lead
>
>
> Mistake number 2.
>
> You're being a "sensitive" guy and letting her tell you
> how things are going to be done and you're
> also being the provider at the same time.  You
> set yourself up to be a chump, not her.
>
> If you didn't know the neighborhood, then you should
> have done some research (if this relationship was
> important enough to you to pay a few bucks for it)
> and at least asked a taxicab driver where the nearest
> starbucks was.
>
>
>>>and had a glass of wine.  We exchanged pleasant conversation and
>
> the
>
>>bill
>>
>>>arrived and being the man, I naturally offered to pay and she
>
> didn't
>
>>offer
>>
>>>too much resistance to my magnanimous gesture.....anyways,   a
>
> glass
>
>>of wine
>>
>>I believe you offered to pay because you felt obligated to pay, and
>>like you would not be a gentleman unless you paid.  I have to fight
>>this too.  It's also awkward to go through your wallet and find the
>>right amount of cash, and one is terribly self-conscious while doing
>>it.
>
>
> I hate to give the devil her due, but he gave her the leash and collar
> and she put it on him.  He did invite her out and give her the choice
> of what to buy on his wallet.  He came across as a chump.
>
> If I might make a few suggestions... I think if he's paying
> for a date, even a cheap one, as I said in the other article
> he should get a lot more than "pleasant conversation".  Starbucks
> makes good coffee for a lousy 2 bucks (refills 75 cents).
> For that, he can get the privilege of having her hold his arm,
> hold her chair out for her (with plenty of people watching),
> and then go straight for serious discussion.  She knows
> what's on his mind, yes?  If he bullshits about what's
> playing in the movie theater next door, she's going to
> think he's a wanker who doesn't have the guts to tell
> her what he wants.
>
> This doesn't mean he's going to get into her pants right there.
> He might need to take her out on a few more dates
> so she can feel comfortable with him but they can
> also be very cheap or even out of his home (maybe make
> her a picnic or BBQ or video.)
>
>
>>I offer a suggestion.  When you would normally ask for the check, ask
>>for separate checks.  In about two seconds, you absolve yourself of
>
> her
>
>>obligation, and there is really no way she can argue.  This gives her
>>no time to fumble through her purse and pretend to have nothing.
>
>
> I tried this.  Unfortunately, I often got stuck with women who
> were desperate or the women went along and still saw me
> but resented it the whole time.
>
>
>>Of course, she probably won't like that, but it doesn't really matter
>>if she likes it.  You like it.  It's best to have an attitude that
>>you'll do as you like, and she can take or leave it.
>
>
> I have my doubts about this method, but the good thing about it
> is that if he goes on half a dozen dates and the woman storms
> off in anger, at least she's not taking his balls with her.
>
>
>>Also, try to avoid profiles that say "career oriented."
>
>
> If it's a personal-ad date, this may be helpful because the
> woman will at least respect the guy as having balls rather
> than chumps  she was able to score 20 buck drinks off of
> (she gets hundreds of those.)
>
> If you get the split check and she has her eyes aglowing with
> anger, it may help to explain to her that you don't
> want her to feel that your just "buying" a relationship.
> That puts her in the hot seat of proving such an idea
> wrong.
>
>
>>A woman can be
>>career oriented without shouting it from the rooftops.  Those two
>>words, in her profile, essentially translate thusly.  "I am callous,
>>bitchy, and carrying enough emotional baggage to ground a 747.  If
>>you're lucky, I'll let you carry it for me."
>>[...]
>
>
> What really makes me laugh were the gals who had the nerve
> to say they were "liberal" politically AND wanted a tall professional
> (presumably to buy them drinks)  Good F'ing luck!

Yeah! so there is a lot of good stuff here, but
there is an easier way. Mark very nearly struck
on it:

Cook dinner for her.

This has a number of advantages: you get to set
the entire agenda; you get to set the budget and
you choose the wine. It does mean spending a few
hours doing the preparation etc., etc. But,
plenty of chicks are totally knocked out by a
guy who can cook and present a meal.

This also has the advantage that, if it unravels
and becomes embarrassing there are no witnesses.

If things progress quickly you are in private
and can move along as fast as you like.

Finally, the bedroom is just a couple of doors
away when the time cums.

D.


> regards,
> Mark Sobolewski
>


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