Chiming in here too Mark and MvLe and all!

 > number... also, there's been many times that i've seen someone
 > online on my bbs that was obviously having problems or was needing 
 > assistance while they were online... if they only list phone number, 
 > it is rather hard to call them to help if they are using that number 
 > for their connection... however, if they list two numbers, then it 
 > is a much easier task to call them and walk them thru things while 
 > they are online or trying to come online...

 ml>  MvLe> Are you serious ? You actually spend money to -call- people to
 ml>  MvLe> assist their BBS use ? ...

Yes and ABSOLUTELY necessary in some cases for Emergency Operations Center
(EOC) mission critical military and public service reasons.  Read on
please.

 ml> what $$$? we're talking about a local call... not 
 ml> something half way around the world... local calls 
 ml> don't cost a thing over here...

And in MANY cases now in the whole USA there is no such thing as $$ long
distance calls anywhere in the whole USA or even into MANY countries using
POTS call techniques.  There are now many telephone services here that
include *ALL* long distance calls completely in your monthly phone bill
flat rate service charge.  Even as I think I am correct in stating that it
may even be less than USD $20 a month for such services.

Which absolutely CAN be used in many cases for BBS message and file
transfer work, particularly for BACKUP mission critical communication when
what most people think is total bliss IP service ** is gone.  For however
long 'gone' is or is going to be.  Please read on.

FidoNet 1/117 here of which I'm the NC has a lot more responsibility that
just the 'normal' message stuff that we tend to think is the purpose of
FidoNet.  Although it has very few nodes published in the formal NodeList,
it also has some 50 more PRIVATE nodes which are *NOT* published in the
formal NodeList and have *NEVER* been the subject of a problem for FidoNet
as to 'improper' access.  This very special collection of nodes is TOTALLY
capable of POTS phone connections for backup and emergency file data and
message purposes in case the normal IP service for an EOC or a medical
facility or whatever ceases to be available for whatever reason.  But a
telephone connection still can be made between two facilities that are
desparate to share even low level data and message service.

Don't laugh.  It *CAN* and *DOES* happen.  Here in the USA, for actual
fact, hurricane penetration on the Gulf Coast has taken down the complete
electrical power grid operations for entire major land areas for longer
than a week at a time.  And in certain rural areas, even though now power
is there, POTS telephone line operation is still present in that the phone
lines, which in many cases are buried cables,are still there, still work,
and still connected to rural POTS switches which are kept operational with
emergency generator services.  I have actually seen East Texas small town
medical service which has POTS service but no IP service for even two weeks
that *COULD* access the mission critial 1:117/3000 FidoNet node by no other
than POTS phone connections.  And in some cases the FidoNet Net 117 *HAS*
been used for such emergency data service as was needed.  By POTS long
distance service work.

Which *CAN*, in the case of ZIPLOG mission critical professional support
template sofware for which I am responsible and author, be used for
condensed but SERIOUSLY IMPORTANT life and death support for the people
that choose to use this techqnique in time of emergency.  And I have a
formal thank you letter from the USA ARRL ham radio organization hanging on
the wall for proof that this *CAN* be done even all across the world from
FidoNet while even operating for test purposes from the ham radio Field Day
operations with the fully integrated ZIPLOG managment software template
matched to FidoNet.  Should this ever be needed and people choose to use
the technique.  Yes with PRIVATE nodes in the network that DO NOT show up
in the FidoNet formal NodeList for VERY good reasons which I think most
reading this can appreciate.

You also BADLY need to realize that there are a whole host of evolving IP
service corruption and destruction possibilities that are part of what all
of us telecommunications professional folks know is going to be a part of
the telecommunications revolution.  Which has only, seriously,just begun. 
That includes wartime and conflict deliberate issues, as well as the threat
of EMP pulse destruction of virtually all copper wired technology, as well
as what is even less understood, the probablity of Solar Flare massive
eruption.  Do not laugh.  The total loss of the entire power grid
operations in the whole world is also possible from solar flare eruptions. 
Few here know about the last major one we took here on earth in the mid
1800's at the time of the driving of the Golden Spike when the railroad was
first finished connecting the East and West coast of the USA.  1867 from
memory here right now.

At that time the communications for the whole affair was by copper wired
telegraph instruments and telegraph code.  And yes, land line Morse Code is
different in the characters than what virtually all of us today know as
International Morse Code.  A long dash for a number zero instead of what we
know as five dashes as in '- - - - -', today.  That actual Solar Flare took
out and burned up almost ALL of the telepgraph sounders in the whole USA! 
As well, in some places, the electrical charge that the railroad rails
picked up, from the electromagnetic pulse that hit us from the sun,
actually set the wooden cross ties on fire where it arced across them to
the ground from the rails!

Just one nuclear blast sets forth at least a 30,000,000 volt per METER
wavefront moving out to the horizon at the speed of light, folks.  The last
test atomic airborne blast in the Pacific about 650 miles from Hawaii, took
out about half of all the traffic signals in the whole island area in
'sight line' with no ground mountain blockabge, from the US Navy test blast
there at the Johnson Island complex.  Tough luck if you have a pacemaker
heart device.  You die.

And true, we *CAN* defend against this type of a problem with fiber optic
cable connected devices and not metal cable connected service. And buried
phone lines; not upstairs phone line service.  And we *CAN* use correctly
designed computer systems with power supplies that *DO* block the pulse
pickup from power line and printer and phone connections of sorts.  As fact
I have a test relay rack server case here on site which I cooperated with
the vendor on EMP pulse protection desging which can be certified for such
service.  But we will no be able to protect any Cell Phones or Ipods or
anything like that.  Life as we know it will be GONE for who knows how long
if we get hit.

But at the final step backwards in providing even food, water, basic
medical care and even knowing where to send the first, second, third
responders; whatever, we *MUST* have communications programs which *CAN*
use ----

              PLAIN ORDINARY TELEPHONE NUMBERS FOR ADDRESSING.

Case closed.

Please *DO NOT* remove this from the work on MAX, BINK; Whatever.  To do so
would be a horrible step in taking away what we *CAN* do for all the world,
if we continue to contribute to FidoNet as some of us do still today for
reasons I have shown you above.

It is ABSOLUTELY necessary to preserve the POTS phone number access and use
techniques in BBS software.


--> Sleep well; OS/2's still awake! ;)

Mike {at} 1:117/3001

--- Maximus/2 3.01