From: duke 

On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 17:20:45 -0500, Bible Bob  wrote:

>>A disciple by definition is a student.  The bible relates 2 circumstances re
the
>>descent of the Holy Spirit - in baptism (see Jesus in the Jordan) and at
>>Pentecost, another baptism acknowledgment in Acts 2:38.

>Acts 11:26 KJV
>And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to
>pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and
>taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in
>Antioch.

That's what I said.

>Disciples were called Christians; not the unlearned babes in Christ.
>In Acts 2:38 the converts were not disciples because they just got
>saved.  It takes time to become a disciple

By your own Acts quote, the disciples "are being taught".

>A disciple is a student of his instructor.
>Matthew 10:24 KJV
>The disciple is not above [his] master, nor the servant above his
>lord.

That's what I said.

>He must also be as his instructor.
>Matthew 10:25 KJV
>It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the
>servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house
>Beelzebub, how much more [shall they call] them of his household?

Does this mean that a disciple of Christ would not be a Muslim?

>He must be discipled and dedicated to the Lord.

That's what I said.

>By the way, I would be remiss if I did not point out that the figure
>of speech employed in Luke 14:26 is called Hyperbole a form of
>Amplification which is the adding to the sense so much that it
>exaggerates it, and enlarges or diminishes it more than is really
>meant in fact.

Luke 14:26 (New International Version) 26"If anyone comes to me and
does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers
and sistersùyes, even his own lifeùhe cannot be my disciple.

Did Jesus agree with you on that?  We're taught that's a translation problem.

>So, a disciple may be a student but more accurately he is a loving
>disciplined  follower of the teacher and the teachings of the teacher.
>He is not a novice; not a babe in Christ.

Sorry, a disciple can be both novice (newly baptize infant) as well as
teacher (apostle).

>>As far as saved in concerned, let's leave that decision to God.   Now if your
>>"saved" is a mere acknowledgement of those that accept
Christ as savior, then
I
>>agree.  They are truly saved, however, when they are buried with Christ to
sin
>>in the hope of rising with him to eternal love of the Father, called Baptism.

>According to Peter in Acts 2 and Paul in Romans 10:9, a person is
>saved when he changes lords from self to Jesus (repents) and believes
>in his heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.

As a student, the Chrisitian disciple's knowledge and beliefs grow as he
grows. He starts as a mere babe in arms to possibly a great leader in old
age.

>  That's what Peter
>taught in Acts 2 that pricked the hearts and motivated the people to
>ask him what they must do to be saved.

Adults seeking out for the first time.

>Indeed God knows who the saved are and it not our job to decide who is
>or is not saved; except for ourselves of course.

Absolutely almost correct.  Jesus judges us at the moment of our death.   Mat
25:31-46.

>To know we are saved
>we have to know whether we have met the criteria.

We don't know.  Mat 25:31-46.

>There are too many salvation plans in play today that are not
>Biblical.  For example, "Accept Jesus as your personal Saviour."  The
>Bible does not say that, people say that.

Neither does the bible say that we can know if we are saved.

>>>>Only if one wants to go to heaven.
>>>People don't go to heaven.  New Jerusalem (paradise) will be on the
>>>earth.

>>Will be a pretty crowded place.

>You know, I have wondered about that myself.  But it will be a new
>heaven and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness able to allow
>space for all those who have ever lived and gained entrance into
>paradise.

Nobody but nobody knows what and where heaven/New Jerusalem is or what it is.

>>Sorry, but Jesus said other wise at the last supper.
>Which of the three last suppers are you referring to?  You do realize
>that there were three that people confuse as one (others two), don't
>you?

No.  I'm talking about the famous ONE.

>John 12:1-10 KJV

A supper, but not a last.

>The second took place two days before the passover at the house of
>Simeon the leper. also in Bethany.

A supper, but not a last.

>The last supper is the one recorded in
>John 13:1-20 KJV

And Mat 26, Mark 14, Luke 22

>He divided the cup and the bread with his disciples; not the general
>populace of Israel

???  He instituted the Holy Eucharist here.

>It's definately an interesting subject; especially for those who
>"eateth and drinketh unworthily" and for those who are "weak and
>sickly among you;" to late for those asleep though.

Jesus will decide.  Heaven is full of Jews pre-Christ.

>>You protest_ants have an extraordinarily shallow view of Christ.

>I am not a Protestant or a Catholic; just a Christian.  A Christian
>can be neither Protestant or Catholic because his loyalty must be to
>Christ first.

I can't speak for protest_ants, but Catholic definitely worship God.

>>>>The bible teaches that one must be perfect(ed) to stand before God.
>>>>Other than that, you're confusing physically dead vs
spiritually dead.
>>>The final judgement is in for all children of God.

Not those that don't past the initial.

>>That's because the mortal sinners have all departed to satan at the initial
>>judgment.
>What?  That's a new one?  I don't understand.

Specific judgment (Mat 25:31-46, Heb 10:26-27) and final judgment.

>>>>>3. Baptism
>>>John 3:5 and 6 speak of a future time from the day John 3 was spoken
>>>when people could and would be born again.

>>Ah, you protest_ers, always looking for a wordsy way out.  But God isn't
amused.

>I'm not a Protestant and do not need to look for a way out because I
>am "in" and staying "in" the one body of Christ
which is made up those
>who believe regardless of their denominational affiliation.

I think John 3:5-6 is very clear.

We see the descent of the Holy Spirit as Jesus left the Jordan, and on the
un baptized disciples at Pentecost.


duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer." Pope Paul VI
*****

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