cv wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:52:59 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
>
> >
> > cv wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:51:29 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > cv wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 16:49:35 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > cv wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:01:37 -0800, bluesmama wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Hardpan wrote:
> >> >> >> >> THE RULES
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > This is undoubtedly one of the saddest
things I've ever
read.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I take it that you haven't heard of the
bestseller "The
Rules"
> > by
> >> >> > Ellen
> >> >> >> Fein, Sherrie Schneider? This book set the
ball rolling by
> >> > promising
> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> teach women the power-play needed to snag a
man. Or were you
> > less
> >> >> > saddened
> >> >> >> by that?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Besides, women's magazines are overflowing
with tricks to
hook
> >> > guys,
> >> >> > are
> >> >> >> you saddened by that too?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > Life is
> >> >> >> > short, and uncertain, and there's no
guarantee that
there's
> >> >> > anything
> >> >> >> > beyond this life -- so to spend
precious time on such
> > bitterness
> >> > is
> >> >> >> > such a terrible waste of time and energy.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Check out alt.seduction.fast or
www.fastseduction.com. These
> > guys
> >> > are
> >> >> >> busy refining their "rules" and
are delighted with the
results.
> >> > They
> >> >> > are
> >> >> >> not bitter in the least. This stuff works very well,
> > apparently,
> >> >> > which is
> >> >> >> quite a commentary on the modern western woman.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Weren't you of the opinion that women were
not responsible
for
> >> > taking
> >> >> >> advantage of men's chivalry? Isn't it
ironic that a person
such
> > as
> >> >> > you
> >> >> >> should feel sad on reading a few "rules"?
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> -CV
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Whether it's bitterness by women aimed at men,
at other women
or
> > at
> >> >> > themselves - or bitterness by men aimed at
women, at other
men
> > or
> >> > at
> >> >> > themselves -- it's always sad.
> >> >>
> >> >> But these guys are hardly bitter, if anything they
are relieved
> > and
> >> >> excited. Whatever bitterness they do exhibit is limited to
their
> > past
> >> >> experiences as nice-guys who were taken advantage of.
> >> >>
> >> >> Besides, women's magazines are dripping with
"relationship
> > advice",
> >> > would
> >> >> you also describe them as dripping with bitterness? That would
> > make a
> >> >> large population of western women bitter with men.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think you have this whole bitterness thing wrong.
> >> >>
> >> >> -CV
> >> >
> >> > You seem to have a problem with an assertion central to most of
my
> >> > posts, that men and women are both capable of the best and the
> > worst.
> >> >
> >> > These guys either are or aren't bitter - your first two
sentences
> > seem
> >> > to contradict each other, because they can't be both. They may
> >> > certainly be bitter in addition to other things, such as
relieved
> > and
> >> > excited (at the thought of all those cowed women they'll soon be
> >> > bedding)
> >>
> >> Parenthetically, women excel at emotional cowing. Men, as a group,
> > can't
> >> hold a candle to women, as a group, in this regard.
> >>
> >> -CV
> >>
> >
> > I'll agree there, but ask you - do you think women excel at
emotional
> > forms of control because that's what works, and also because they
can't
> > compete (mostly) with how men can use physical forms of control?
>
> This was true in the past, men can't use physical force anymore.

Men can and do use physical force to control (and physically strong
women can and do as well) but it's just not as socially acceptable.
Emotional force used to control (most often used by women) just needs
to be tamed by the same social controls.

> > That both genders use controlling techniques, and that they only
> > differ in form?
>
> Men are quite powerless these days. I expect to see more of these
"rules"
> type emotional counter-measures getting popular in the future.
>
> -CV

Many men might feel powerless, but let me assure you that many women do
as well. I don't think men _are_ powerless, as a group, but maybe
that's because I'm surrounded by men who are aware of the pressures
placed on them and are choosing to make changes in their own lives -
most people can't go out and change the world.



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