greg1199{at}yahoo.com wrote:
> mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com wrote:
> > greg1199{at}yahoo.com wrote:
> > > Jim wrote:
> > > > corresponding with a 'career-oriented' single early 40's woman
in
> > > > online dating.  I asked if she was interested in meeting one
> night > > > after work for a cup of coffee as she indicated she
enjoys
> a good
> > > > cup of coffee.  What I had in mind was a starbucks, or
something
> > > > cheaper...nothing extravagant
> > > > as it was a first date. She said "Coffee or a drink sounds
good".
>   > > > So, we agreed
> > >
> > > She gave it away right there.
> >
> > Could you be specific?  You mean she was trolling for a drink
> > (expensive cocktail?)
>
> Among other things.  One can generously assume that she accepted this
> invitation to see if there was a mutual interest between them.  But
her
> attitude still said, "If I don't like him, I don't want to have gone
> for nothing, so I want to get something free, that I want, out of
> this."  Her attitude toward men is such that she thinks of what she
can
> get from men, but not of the men themselves.
>
> If one is not so generous as to assume she wanted to get to know him,
> one quickly concludes that she went because she had nothing else to
do,
> and this would get her free drinks.  I'm ordinarily generous, but in
> this case, I'll assume the latter.
>
> Then there's her dishonesty.  Instead of accepting an invitation to
> have coffee, she surreptitiously slipped the drink in there, then
> ordered a bunch of free drinks.  She turned his invitation into an
> invitation he didn't really make, then accepted her self-invitation
at
> great expense to him.
>
> In short, she showed herself to be a mercenary and a cheat.
>
> > > > to meet near her office (in NYC)...  so she picked a restaurant
> > > > that caters to the Broadway musical crowd.
>
> As the heyena strips whatever meat it can from a carcass, so this
woman
> does with invitations extended to her by men.  She got an invitation
> for coffee at Starbucks, and no one offered to pay.  She turned this
> into an offer of free drinks at some foofy Manhattan restaurant.
>
> [...]
>
> > I was reading an amusing article on askmen.com (check
> > out this P-whipped guy)
>
> I can't stand to read this link.  The sight of such self-depracating,
> pussywhipped men kills me.  One wants to tell them to stand tall and
> respect themselves, but they don't want to hear it.
>
>
> [...]
>
> [...]
>
> > > I offer a suggestion.  When you would normally ask for the check,
> ask
> > > for separate checks.  In about two seconds, you absolve yourself
of
> > > her
> > > obligation, and there is really no way she can argue.  This gives
> her
> > > no time to fumble through her purse and pretend to have nothing.
> [...]
> > > Of course, she probably won't like that, but it doesn't really
> matter
> > > if she likes it.  You like it.  It's best to have an attitude
that
> > > you'll do as you like, and she can take or leave it.
> >
> > I have my doubts about this method, but the good thing about it
> > is that if he goes on half a dozen dates and the woman storms
> > off in anger, at least she's not taking his balls with her.
>
> Exactly.  One will get dumped regardless.  It's part of the game, he
> can't control what she does.  He can only control what he does.  And
if
> she storms off in a huff, good for him.  He's just weeded out a
> mercenary.  If he finds someone who doesn't mind him asking for
> separate checks, he's better off with her than with a woman who won't
> have him unless she can put his nads in her purse.  And if he gets
> stuck with the latter, he may miss out on the former.
>
> > > Also, try to avoid profiles that say "career oriented."
> >
> > If it's a personal-ad date, this may be helpful because the
> > woman will at least respect the guy as having balls rather
> > than chumps  she was able to score 20 buck drinks off of
> > (she gets hundreds of those.)
>
> True, but the ones who point out that they are "career oriented"
> wouldn't have to point that out if they were able to show it.  "By
> their deeds shall ye know them."  If she tells you she's super career
> woman, she's giving you the impression that she'll carry herself.  If
> she then steams because you don't buy her food, she's not the real
> deal.
>
> > If you get the split check and she has her eyes aglowing with
> > anger, it may help to explain to her that you don't
> > want her to feel that your just "buying" a relationship.
> > That puts her in the hot seat of proving such an idea
> > wrong.
>
> But it's rather disrespectful of her to glare at me for not carrying
> her, and I'd just as soon return the favor by deeming her undeserving
> of an explanation.
>
> Note how judgemental I'm being.  Men usually let women judge them,
and
> worry how women will judge them.  I'd rather reverse that custom.
It's
> they who take from us, and we should decide carefully to whom we'll
> give.
>
> > > A woman can be
> > > career oriented without shouting it from the rooftops.  Those two
> > > words, in her profile, essentially translate thusly.  "I am
> callous,
> > > bitchy, and carrying enough emotional baggage to ground a 747.
If
> > > you're lucky, I'll let you carry it for me."
> > > [...]
> >
> > What really makes me laugh were the gals who had the nerve
> > to say they were "liberal" politically AND wanted a tall
professional
> > (presumably to buy them drinks)  Good F'ing luck!
>
> Yeah, that gives me a chuckle as well.  Like the woman pretends to be
a
> modern, liberal, corporate goddess, then tells me she's "old
fashioned"
> as we approach the restaurant.
> [...]

No one except the woman in question knows her motivations, but it just
occurred to me - what if she was using the first date to see what this
guy's limits were, as far as how far he was willing to compromise
himself in order to (possibly)laid? Frankly, a guy I can walk all over
is not a guy I'd want to date twice, I prefer a man with a strong sense
of himself and some firm boundaries. It's hard to have any respect for
someone who, instead of being assertive (not aggressive, that would
turn me off too, unless it was in the right situation, but let's not go
there right now) was a passive man. Generally, passive people take it
and take it and then end up surprising everyone by blowing up and
getting aggressive.



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