Hey Nancy!

Apr 09 23:40 06, Nancy Backus wrote to Maurice Kinal:

 NB> Aye, there's the rub.  (to quote someone famous)  Often people 
 NB> *aren't*
 NB> honest, either with themselves or with each other....

Amen.  I suppose the reason might be that whatever it is they want/need
they'd rather not admit to seeing it might ruffle feathers.  With
male/female relationships honesty might not be the best policy but then
again one has to ask themselves if it requires being a phoney is a
relationship worth the effort, especially what it will take to get out of
it once it has been determined that it isn't worth it.  Throw children into
the mess, especially when they weren't wanted, and it can get really ugly,
really fast and everyone comes out a loser, especially the children.

 NB> terribly
 NB> easy to fool oneself that one is indeed seeing the attributes 
 NB> desired,
 NB> even when they aren't really there, in a person with whom one becomes
 NB> infatuated.

That can happen for sure.

 NB> And there are far too many people who put on a persona 
 NB> or a
 NB> facade to look as though they are someone they are not, in reality.

Right.  See my first paragraph.  I think that was my point or a healthy part of it.

 NB> In theory, I suppose...  :)  Or, perhaps better stated, the list is 
 NB> the
 NB> working out of the basic wants in terms of the practical 
 NB> applications.

Put it this way, if either party doesn't know the practical applications
and how to deal with them before getting married then I think there is a
good chance that both are off to a very bad start.  Having said that,
sometimes it gets worked out fine along the way but I think that is an
exception rather then a rule.

 MK>> Then that husband wasn't being honest wrt the basic wants of a
 MK>> relationship. 

 NB> Oh, it's often stated right up front, what the expectations would be, 

Sometimes I suppose.  I don't know.  It has been quite some time for me as
far as male/female relationships are concerned.  After my only marriage, I
haven't really pursued a live together relationship with a woman as I doubt
women would appreciate the path I ended up travelling on since.  Me?  I am
not convinced I appreciated it but here I am.

 NB> by
 NB> both men and women...  Some of it is cultural, particularly those 
 NB> from
 NB> one's childhood upbringing,

I imagine so although I don't find myself there even when I was there. 
Something went 'wrong' somewhere along the line since if my upbringing was
such an influence then neither my marriage or newfound singulatrity is
reflected that I can see.

 NB> No, but the relationship makes a difference as to how the task is
 NB> tackled, and by whom, and in which circumstances...  :)

I suppose.  Speaking for myself the children usually decided that and often
that ended up being me.  I think I was a fairly good 'mother' to them.  :-)

 NB> example of the dishes....  If there's only one person generating the
 NB> dishes, of course that person is responsible for doing them up.  Once
 NB> there are 2 or more people, whose responsibility it is becomes an
 NB> issue...

Oh yeah!  Add children to the mix and it becomes even more of an issue. 
That is usually when the subject of allowance comes up.

 NB> each could be responsible for the dishes self-generated, or
 NB> one person could be designated to always clean them up, or it could 
 NB> be
 NB> on a rota basis, or.... various permutations...  :)   And when the
 NB> expectations, stated or not, aren't met, then the relationship is
 NB> usually what suffers.  And this isn't solely in marital or 
 NB> male-female
 NB> relationships, of course...

Right.  I'd agree with that.

 NB> I threw those in as being expectations, rather than necessarily valid
 NB> ones.  Generally that sort of expectations are more artificial, and 
 NB> yes,
 NB> often a part of an extra-marital relationship, or seen as 
 NB> justification
 NB> for cheating, sad to say.

Hm.

 NB> do it oneself, whatever the job may be.  So one looks for a wife or a
 NB> husband to take the job over for them... but, for the expectations of

Not me.  I don't like doing dishes but I'd rather just do them then use
that as an excuse for wanting a wife.  I can think of MUCH better reasons
for having a wife around then having someone to do my dishes.  ;-)

Having said that, not always for that particular reason either but
certainly that reason moreso then a dishwasher.

 NB> Well, yes...     Not that our marriage is perfect, by any means, 
 NB> but
 NB> we have* worked out SOME of it...

Sounds perfect to me but then I suppose we'd need to define perfection, no?

 NB> niece comes over to clean for us, for a modest fee.  She does much
 NB> better than I could or would, so I'm glad to let her do it.  

Sounds like an ideal setup all around.

 NB> Goes both ways, of course...  One has to put up with us, too... :)

Right.  I haven't found that person yet ... not that I am looking all that
hard.  I am not sure why I am not looking but I am not for whatever reason.

Life is good,
Maurice

--- Msged/LNX 6.2.0