-=> Quoting Matt Smith to Robert Keith <=-
 RK> A typical Republican/libertarian specious argument. The point I was 
 RK> trying
 RK> to make is that it is fallacious to think that only government run 
 RK> systems
 RK> such as the Canadian, German, or whatever, are the only ones that 
 RK> limit
 RK> health care. HMO's in this country, at times, severely limit health 
 RK> care
 MS> You're comparing apples and T-bone.  This isn't even comparing
 MS> apples and oranges.
 MS> HMOs aren't monopolies.  Policyholders that don't like the
 MS> rationing are free to spend their own money (at their own cost) getting
Apparently you can't see the similarity between HMO's and any other single
payer systems because of myopia. The point I was trying to make is that bean
counters and not MD's, no matter where they are located or for whom they
are working, are deciding what health care will be provided to  a patient.
Their decisions are often based entirely on cost and not the patients
needs. Medicare, although laxer than many HMO's, also  has restrictions on
what will be provided and what will not. I don't know where you are getting
your disingenuous information, but it certinly does not jibe with what
snowbird Canadians say. As far as spending one's own money is concerned you
are correct, but it shows a calous disregard for needs. For example, a
prime Medicare supplement here in Florida costs ~$2K/annum. One can get
cheaper for less coverage. So this fits exactly into what Dole and the
Republicans are touting; namely, the hell with everyone except the very
wealthy who can afford to pay.
Health care is one of them.
 MS> Really?  America has had health care for its working-age
 MS> population for decades without federal involvement other than Medicaid
 MS> for the poor, and it had health care for many decades without federal
 MS> involvement at all...Medicare not till 1965 and Medicaid not until
 MS> reasonably recent either. 
More disingenuous posting. There was no health care for the working-age
population until after WWII. How do I know? I belonged to  that
population before, and after WWII. Health care was not offered until it was
necessary to attract employees during the boom years. So to say that health
care was provided without federal involvement is patently false. Even
today, health care provided by employers is NOT part of a benefits package
with not out-of-pocket cost to the employees except for, perhaps, those
employees in upper management or professional. For example, food store
chains provide health care to permanent employees at some cost to the
employee which is deducted from his or her paycheck.
... Do Me Wrong or Do Me Right ... Just Do Me!
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