Hi Nancy,                   [Cross-Posted to `FdN_Electronics' by error]

     About "My BBS access" of April 5 and later:

NB> Are you doing your telnetting in Windows or in DOS?
BC> A DOS window with a DOS terminal program.
NB> ...I can only upload reply packets to ones that have the kermit
NB> protocol, since I've not been able to use ZModem for uploads with
NB> DOS in the telnet mode...  Which is why I'm curious...  I keep
NB> hoping that someone has figured out a way for Zmodem to work for
NB> telnet uploads when strictly in DOS, but...
ML> ...likely will never be resolved until some DOS programmer(s) come
ML> up with a DOS based zmodem that has relaxed timeouts...

     Although your name sounds familiar to me i'm not certain if mine is
reminding you of anything and i won't check ancient records of the `DOS-
INet' area to find if i ever discussed this matter with you around, this
may not sound completely genuine to you but it's a pleasure to repeat it
all again, anyway!  Well, i had a similar problem to yours at some time,
somewhere around 1996.  My posts became focussed starting from there, as
i began to make progress, then at the turn of the century it seemed that
there was real hope with Virtual ~INT-14~/~FOSSIL~ ~TelNet~ MoDem shims.

     Although `MS-Kermit' also appeared to be a very promissing solution
at the time, i was facing a wall because of misconceptions around it.  A
few more pieces of the puzzle started to fall into place as my quest was
making progress;  ~PPP~ SoftWare also improved in the meantime...  Today
i testify, after an extensive testing period, that my .QWK/.REP message-
packets routinely transfer both ways (and successfully) by using `MS-DOS
v7.10a'+`LSPPP v0.8'+`RLFossil v1.23'+`{Commo} v7.7'/~ZMoDem~.  Should i
have given any credit to the statement saying that ~INT-14~/~FOSSIL~ was
designed for printers only i wouldn't have been able to post in pure DOS
(and using my favourite terminal emulator) for quite a pretty long time!

     In any case, i had a few more trails to follow in the begining so i
didn't stop searching from there.  I'm only an ordinary LEGACY BBSer but
i'm stuborn and yet open-minded so i considered `PC/TCP' combined to the
`IVT DOS v11.3e' terminal emulator from Ruurd Beerstra and it turned out
this is the one-and-only pure DOS solution with reduced ~ZMoDem~ failure
rates!  No more slow-down due to repeated errors and my DownLoad now had
a chance to complete - too bad `PC/TCP' isn't for free though, our hobby
hardly justifies the co$t these days (not to mention it may be difficult
to find).  I tried to convince the author that part of his work could be
of use to the BBSer community, i even managed to have him join our echo;
the record would show the `DOS-INet' users only contradicted one another
when he began posting on `FdN' so there was no incentive for anything, i
couldn't even hope for code optimization (hence faster execution speed).

     Pure DOS BBSers have `RLFossil'/`{Commo}', it's free but it suffers
from the fact that ~ZMoDem~'s parameters are hard-coded in `{Commo}', as
for many other terminal emulators created in the good old days of DialUp
BBSing.  In addition, `{Commo}' and similar terminal emulators come from
an era where the ~INT-14~/~FOSSIL~ interface usually limits a connection
to 38K4 bps and BBSers must rely on `RLFossil' because ~TCP/IP~ features
such as ~TelNet~ were rarely supported internally.  I'm only a user, not
a DOS programmer or else but i found this:  in comparison to `ZMoDem' my
`Kermit' transfers typically reach rates ranging between 2 and 3K5 Kcps,
5 Kcps in ideal conditions;  my cps figures with `WildCat!' hosts trying
a ~ZMoDem~ transfer are around 1K5 cps...  Before you think about asking
me, the INet connection is from a 56 Kbps HardWare MoDem over here and i
do this on a P-200 Mhz MMX using the contraption shown in paragraph two.

     Now, more about `Kermit'...  As far as i'm concerned, efficiency is
improved with a `MS-DOS v7.10a'+`LSPPP v0.8'+`RLFossil v1.23'+`MS-Kermit
v3.15 Medium' setup but the `Kermit' file transfer protocol WILL need to
be supported correctly on BOTH ends.  I once tried to cooperate with Mr.
Craig Healy, a couple years ago, so that his BBSers can get just that (i
am a DOS LEGACY BBSer, i still use DialUp and won't post on-line if that
can be avoided)!  Columbia's `MS-Kermit' being the best thing available,
and for both ends, i deeply regret that mister Healy - one of a few rare
SysOps to ever have considered this alternative, euh....  Well, i wish i
could have published a ready-made `Kermit' installation kit for the rest
of his fellow `WildCat!' SysOps, with his assistance, to prevent archaic
pre-1985 stuff like `WC-Kermit' from hurting `Kermit's reputation again.

     SysOps and users who were informed about this rarely felt concerned
and none of my adventures with a SysOp led to a satisfactory conclusion,
in the worst cases i faced hostility and in the best ones i quit without
loosing too much of my tamper!...  The BBS people can't care less that a
handfull of LEGACY BBSers must still depend on DialUp/~TelNet~+~ZMoDem~/
~Kermit~ and/or that they prefer not to rely on Error Correction done at
other levels than that of the file transfer protocol in use;  the BBSers
are expected to practice their hobby under `Windows' (never mention `Win
16'!) and using ~ZMoDem~ or else.  A SysOp who's still active did enough
already, never ask the poor guy for any ~ZMoDem~ alternative like proper
`Kermit' support (Columbia's own implementation, i mean - `WC-Kermit' is
practically USELESS).  A special request demands too much of a SysOp and
hence might pose a threat to what `Win 32' users got for granted, trying
to accomodate one BBSer is unacceptable.  Well, that's what it seemed...

     I tried to find exceptions to disprove the statements above but the
excercise only got me frustration and trouble...  If you and Craig Healy
can manage to get your parameters right then chances are that your .QWK/
.REP files will transfer correctly both ways.  Even my 8088 4.77 Mhz PCs
can move binary files around via `Kermit' and parameters are accessible;
your SysOp wasn't so bad, if he's still running a `WC-4' system then i'd
resume our past cooperation with pleasure.  If you prefer ~ZMoDem~ then,
at least, consider `LSPPPDlr' (`RLFossil'+`{Commo}', go to ~URL~ below);
avoid `FDSZ' unless you got a good reason as this has been tried before!

                            Salutations,

                            Michel Samson
                            a/s Bicephale
                            http://public.sogetel.net/bicephale/home.htm


P.S.:  If you Dial to a "Shell" server try switching the remote terminal
       to BINARY mode.  The setups above are for ~PPP~ connections only.


... DOS+TCP/IP+TelNet+ZMoDem/Kermit+.QWK technologies on 8088s or higher
--- MultiMail/XT v0.45 - Numbers might make BBSing UNIVERSAL, not sugar!