"Society" (Society{at}feminism.is.invalid) writes:
> Those who need this hint know who they are!
>
>    A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of a message.
>    Q: Why is top posting a sloppy form of writing?
>
>    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?How_to_post

Indeed. 

> "lukne"  wrote in message
> news:1111636206.671309.208160{at}g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> I lived in Washtington DC for eight years and
>> never heard about this memorial ["to the men on
>> the RMS Titanic who had surrendered their
>> places in the liner's too few lifeboats so that
>> women and children could be saved when the
>> great ship went down on April 15, 1912" located
>> "on the Washington Channel near Fort McNair"
>> and "erected in 1931 by 'the women of America'
>> in the spirit of 'lest we forget,' "]. I never once
>> read about it in the Washington Times, Washington
>> Post or the City Paper.
>
> Well, lukne, the women forgot and the mainstream
> media (MSM) serves women's interests.  Women
> lost interest and so the MSM did too.  No surprise.

Sure, and we can easily see the same right now. How
many media outlets are reporting on the folly of
guarding an over 6 foot ex linebacker with a 5 foot
grandmother, V/ all the attention given to the female
hostage who " calmed " the perp after that start ?

> Just a bit more seriously: To be generous to the
> women of your grandparents generation, lukne,
> I speculate that the women of Washington, D.C.
> were busy with other memorials to their men who
> died so "women and children" wouldn't have to
> during the World War II period.  And so this
> particular memorial passed out of memory.

Indeed. How many women died, storming Omaha Beach,
again ?

>> But now that I do know about it, I will
>> definitely go there when I visit the city
>> next summer.
>
> Thank you, lukne, for your intention to show
> some good will toward men.  When you turn
> that intention into action, your action will be
> appreciated even more.

Indeed.

>> By the way, I would have gladly given my spot
>> on the boat for a child, a pregnant woman
>> or even the husband of a pregnant woman.
>
> Sigh.  Yes, we all hope we would have had
> the heroic courage shown by so many men
> toward women and children that night, lukne.

Sure. But, its easy to spout such offerings on Usenet,
and quite another thing to ever do any such thing.

> There is no record, tho', of ANY woman
> rescuing a man the night the Titanic sank.
> Rather, there are accounts of women in
> half-empty lifeboats who beat off men in
> the freezing North Atlantic water who
> could likely have been saved had those
> women given some of the empty places
> on the lifeboat the women occupied to
> one of those unfortunate men.

Quite. Such historical facts were not to be shown
in an MSM film depiction, especially one whose
purpose was to attract more women/girls into the
theatres...

> And there is an account of a suffragette
> activist who scolded the women survivors
> of the Titanic catastrophe for not being
> as willing as the men to give up places
> on the lifeboats so that others might live.
> Her words were considered scandalous
> by other women AND she wasn't on board
> the Titanic that fateful night either.  Words
> are cheap, as (sigh) feminists demonstrate
> all too often.  It was a woman who taught me
> she is NOT what she says, she is what she DOES.

Spot on.

> I'm sure your sentiment is meant sincerely, lukne,
> and your the willingness you expressed in your
> post to take on for yourself one of the most costly
> responsibilities that are laid onto men is endearing.
> Welcome, lukne, to a place shoulder-to-shoulder
> with your brothers in solidarity should we be tested
> together by a most mortal and awful fate.

Notice that lukne can *choose* that status. Would that
such choice were open to millions of men who were...
drafted.

>> And I very much admire the men who died
>> rather than take their place in the life boats.
>
> Yes, there were so many such admirable men
> on that horrible night.  Those who confused the
> popular cinema dramas of the Titanic disaster
> with reality don't appreciate how many men
> like that there were that night.  The historical
> facts, however, are that among all three classes
> of passengers, a higher percentage of women
> survived than men AND a higher percentage
> of women in THIRD CLASS survived than
> men travelling in first class.

Yep.

>> But to me, the main tragedy of the Titanic
>> was the arrogance at not having enough life
>> boats to save all the passengers and crew.
>
> I don't know if "arrogance" is an accurate
> description of the reason for the lack of life
> boats.  IIRC, most of the available lifeboats
> either could not be deployed (for reasons that
> include the angle of the sinking ship's list) or
> were lost because of crew error and panic
> by passengers.

Its a bit of both. The first issue is that, in
the last decade before the commissioning of the
Olympic and Titanic ( RMS Olympic survived active
service in The Great War, to be scrapped in 1936 ),
ship sizes and passenger capacities had mushroomed,
while the legal regs, didn't keep pace with that
technological growth.

So, the design for the Olympic class liners did
indeed meet all the lawful requirements on lifeboat
numbers, types, and capacities.

Up to that time, no ship even approaching that size
had been so lost.

>> They should have known that no boat
>> is unsinkable.
>
> "They", that is, the Titanic's designers DID
> know "no boat is unsinkable".  "Unsinkable"
> was a moniker applied by the popular press

Indeed, and the ship's builders and operators
had nothing to do with that erroneous moniker.

> (we'd call 'em the MSM, today).  Then as
> now, most reporters are ignorant about that
> on which they choose to report -- take the
> recent flap over the Harvard president's
> remarks, please!
>
> 



>> Also, a lot of woman, children and men
>> of the lower classes (cheaper tickets) died
>> because their lives didn't seem as worthy
>> as the first class ones.
>
> You're wrong about that.  Put the James
> Cameron movie out of your mind and look
> up the actual record, lukne.  (Sigh.)  Here's
> one of many links available:
> http://www.ithaca.edu/staff/jhenderson/titanic.html
>
> A warning about that link: The site's creator
> is soooo hypnotized by the usual pop culture
> propaganda about the Titanic disaster that
> altho' the numbers provided CLEARLY show
> a higher percentage of women in steerage
> survived than men in first class, the site's
> author (at a college, no less!) foolishly claims
> "The numbers make it all too clear that a rule
> of First Class First far outweighed any
> guiding principle of Women and Children First."
>
> One might also chalk up the site author's
> idiotic false claim to a commonplace blindness
> that keeps most people from noticing disparities
> that cost men and advantage women while
> being hypersenstitive to any class difference
> along lines OTHER than sex.
>
> Oh, and the tale of the Titanic's crew locking
> the doors to trap steerage (third class) passengers
> below decks is just another tall tale that defames
> the men of the Titanic's crew.

Indeed. A very good pair of reads on this topic
would be Charles Pelligrino's works on the ship,
" Her Name Titanic ", and " Ghosts Of The Titanic ".

>> Anyway, I'm pretty fascinated by the Titanic
>> story and really want to visit that memorial.
>
> I hope you do visit it, lukne.  Please offer them
> your prayer or blessing when you're there.

And, take away an understanding from that, that sometimes
nature trumps technology, yet it's technology that keeps us
almost always safer from the random acts of nature.

Its because technology fails so relatively rarely, that
we can use it, day to day, and be safe in that use. The
proof of that rareity of failure, is the noteriety of
the Titanic.

> --
>    It is exactly because men are fair
>    that we've listened so patiently
>    to women's allegations that we're not.
>
>    Jack Kammer, _If Men Have All the Power
>    How Come Women Make the Rules_,
>    www.rulymob.com - publishers. (1999) page 12.

Andre


--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
                                    The Man Prayer, Red Green.


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