Mark Sobolewski wrote:

> In article ,
>  Dustbin  wrote:
>
>
>>Mark Sobolewski wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article ,
>>> Dustbin  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Moreover, I have also maintained that the entire
>>>>capitalist establishment has to LIE to men from
>>>>start to finish because if men were told the
>>>>truth they would simply not do this crazy thing.
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello Dustbin,
>>>
>>>I find your marxist tone rather amusing considering
>>>that the family court system has more in common
>>>with the Soviet system of family law than a system
>>>based upon individual freedom and justice.
>>
>>Marx's crtitque is still valid inspite of the
>>errors of command economy.
>>
>>Capitalism is stil abusive, exploitative, etc.,
>>etc. If the working class were so abusive and
>>generally anti-social there would be (are) laws
>>against it.
>>
>>Also, capitalism is fundermentally as flawed as
>>command economics. It is simply less obvious in
>>the case of capitalism. That capitalism must
>>come to an end is a mathematical certainty.
>>
>>Also, capitalism is wrecking the planet. What
>>about your children's children's children?
>
>
> [violin playing]
>
> In Europe and even the States, population would largely
> shrink AND living standards rise and the environment
> benefit if it wasn't for socialist support
> for illegal immigration and feminism.  Illegal
> immigration creates stress on the society helping
> to create problems with housing, transportion, etc.
> as well as feminism having career women use
> all kinds of instant products to help them
> save time which they would have done at home.
>
> Which is it:  Is capitalism bad because it gives
> people choices and resources to live well helping
> to trash the environment OR is it bad because
> it impovershes people in third world countries?
>
>
>>I am a socialist and support a demand economy.
>
>
> Yeah, the rest belt of the US and California have
> tons of demands and their economies are going into
> the toilet.  Fast.
>
>
>>Finally, I might point out that a great deal of
>>the western belief system about the communists
>>is the pumped up propaganda of western
>>governments.
>
>
> These are the same governments which often comprise
> 50% of the labor force in socialist programs.
>
> Question: If socialism is so great, why is it always
> necessary to raise taxes?  One thing you can say
> about capitalism: They sure do lower the cost of
> all those cars to trash the world, eh?  If socialists
> ran things (as they did in Eastern Europe), people
> would live in poverty AND trash the environment.
> Win win!
>
Why can't you work these simple things out for
yourself.

The answer is because public services - like
education, health and policing - are very labour
intensive together with often requiring
specialist technical support and resources all
of which increase in cost well above inflation.
It does not matter which government you get - if
they deliver the services they will have to find
the money or it will mean reducing spending on
something else.

The absurdity of this is that capital resource
(the sociual producvt) can be spent one way or
another - not twice (though many politicians
might like to).

You can either give it to the rich or share it.

In the eighties 1% at the top of the pile gained
overwhelmingly while 40% at the bottom lost out
badly; about 14% just below the top 1% rose in
standard of living and the remainder gained nothing.

The sadness for me, and others like me, is that
so many people seem to be suckered by the
simplistic propaganda crap of the capitalist right.




>
>>If the communist system was (is) so
>>bad why is it that Yelsin nearly got the boot in
>>favour of the commies in Russia in 1995?
>
>
> Probably the same way Yanakovich nearly won
> in Ukraine. :-)
>
No. The capitalists - who owned the media -
propagandised it for him.


>
>>Also
>>why is it that, if socialistic thinking is such
>>an abomination, in the Unkriane recently the
>>country split down the middle between western
>>ways and Russian ways?
>
>
> I have a personal involvement in this issue:
>
> Russian immigration in the east was strong during
> communist times and the native Ukrainians were
> subject to a policy of "Russification".
>
> After the Ukrainians won independance similar to
> Poland during the 90's, they made their own
> language the official language of the country.
>
> Many Russian-Ukrainians support "communism" because they
> want stronger ties to their ancestrial homeland.
>
> FYI: When you get a chance, tell me what the
> acronym "NAZI" stands for...
>
So far as I am aware it is the initials of the
German for: National Socialist Workers Party.

And please don't ask me to explain how supposedd
socialism ended up like that. It is nothing like
what I would call socialism. And, I might point
out that Sereny (1983) showed that what the NAZI
system was about was wealth creation - for the rich.

>
>>Uncle Ras, incidentally, is imposing more and
>>more State control and even State ownership on
>>industry to curb the mafioso style criminality
>>of rampant uncontrolled capiatlism.
>
>
> Here's the thing: It's a lot easier to control capitalism,
> through a system of checks and balances, than it is
> to basically have the wolf watch the henhouse which
> is having a single form of oversight for industry
> and government.

Th problem is that we don't have the checks and
balances. The cap[italist employers and
landlords are allowed to do antisoccial thngs to
the employees and tennants that can seriously
damage their lives that would never be allowd if
the capitalists were on the receiving end.

It is easy for me to get rich if I am allowed to
rob your house but you are not allowed to rob mine.

> I love to get a laugh watching marxists in the states
> whine and cry about THEIR precious tax dollars
> being spent on the war in Iraq.  Isn't it a shame
> when someone steals from THEM?  Gosh!  It should
> the government stealing from someone else to benefit 'em.

As I have said on several occasions on this ng;
I have no objection to taxes. What I do and
would object to is their blatant misuse - such
as an illegal war agaist Iraq just to support
the greed of a few amerikan oil corps.

There is nothing wrong with socialism; it is
only the implementation that has been misguided.

I would not support what happened in Germany in
the 130s-40s or in the Sino-Soviet block.

Socialism does not *have* to be evil; I wouldn't
support it if that was the case.


> regards,
> Mark Sobolewski



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