Mark Sobolewski (mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com) writes:
> In article ,
>  dg411{at}FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Andre Lieven) wrote:
>>  (mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com) writes:
>> > greg1...{at}yahoo.com wrote:
>> >> bluesmama wrote:
>> >
>> >> > guy's limits were, as far as how far he was willing
to compromise
>> >> > himself in order to (possibly)laid? Frankly, a guy I
can walk all
>> >> > over is not a guy I'd want to date twice,
>> >>
>> >> Ah hah!!  Such refreshing honesty.
>> >
>> > Not totally.
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> > She says she didn't want wimps but at the same time wanted
>> > guys who caved into her demands.
>> >
>> > Does this make a lot of sense?
>>
>> No, but neither does the ideological underpinning of sexist
>> "bluesmama"'s views make any more sense.
>
> Let's give her some credit however: Her views work.

Do they ? If they do, is that why female pop writer after pop
writer, from Susan Reimer to Maureen O'Dowd, is bitching about
men not " following the Rules " ?

All that suggests to me that, while one might find occasional
women who believe that it works, they're either in the minority,
and/or not in the game.

> At least for now.
>
> She's got her fantasy world, it works for her, and I respect it.

Why ? Why would one respect living in a fantasy world ?

> Hmmm, come to think of it, maybe that's why it works:
> She sounds as if she didn't date a very long time.

Indeed. Those who have fled the game, cannot honestly then
claim that " it works ". Their deliberate absense belies
such a claim.

> If she had, and had dealt with a number of men, she
> would then start to develop all kinds of special
> negative interpretations and suspicians making it
> impossible for them to appease her (assuming they would
> want to.)

Indeed.

> The first or second guy who came along with the Joe
> "sensitive but self-confident" act won her heart.
> After a dozen dates
> or so, such women quickly start to doubt the sincerity
> of anything they do.  Is the "sensitive" act fake
> or is it the "confident" part?  She may not have had
> time to develop suspicians.

Agreed. And, the flip side is that many younger men may not have
had time to develop their own suspicions.

> I'm reminded of people who went crazy in the former USSR
> as they began to suspect EVERYTHING around them because
> as it turned out, such paranoia often turned out to
> be correct.  It's so good to be young...

Agreed. Twice. 

>> > Later, Parg says she wants equal treatment but at the same
>> > time wants men to prevent her from running around with
>> > scissors lest she hurt others.
>> >
>> > Basically, the women want a fantasy world where they're
>> > both adults and children.  They want men to lie to them.
>>
>> " Tell me lies, sweet little lies... "
>>
>> Lets not forget " Honey, do these jeans make my ass look fat ? "
>>
>> > (Of course, except for Bluesmomma's husband.  Her husband
>> > would NEVER lie to her.  He said so so it must be true. :-)
>>
>> LOL ! Yes, pussywhipped males might behave that way, just as a
>> slave would, around it's slavemaster.
>
> What's funny is how these men often overcompensate with their
> "maucho man" act.   Rumored "short man's syndrome" appears
> minor by comparison.

Agreed. Its the swift " knee jerking " that gives such folks away.

>> >> > I prefer a man with a strong sense of himself and
>> >> > some firm boundaries. It's hard to have any respect for
>> >> > someone who, instead of being assertive (not aggressive,
>> >> > that would turn me off too, unless it was in the right
>> >> > situation, but let's not go
>> >
>> > I want to say bullshit but she has a half point.
>> >
>> > I have told women off on dates and some of them got into
>> > the bad boy routine.  But then, I lived in the awful
>> > world of trying to guess which fantasy they needed at the time:
>> > The prince or the barbarian.
>> >
>> > I believe it was GoddessBaybee who said that men having sex
>> > with prostitutes were having a masturbatory experience.
>> > Yet, such women want men to provide romance fantasies which
>> > are equally absurd and unfulfilling for the men before
>> > she puts out.  At least the prostitute retains some dignity
>> > compared to these apologetic slobs who must walk a fine
>> > line of "respecting" the woman but watching out for
her tests.
>>
>> Quite. The key difference is that the Honest Woman, and the
>> Hooker, both reward truth. The Feminist woman rewards lies.
>
> Oftentimes, not even then.

True. Often she rewards no one but herself. Such women have
the same person to blame for their aloneness.

> The point of the "asker pays begging for future dates" model
> is that the guy doesn't get anything other than the pleasure
> of groveling in her presence (and pretending, of course,
> not to be a wuss. :-)

Sure. Its a mug's game.

> I've observed that some of these marriages and relationships
> last for years.  I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop.
> When does she wake up one morning, maybe, and say
> "I need to go "find" myself" and the poor bastard doesn't
> have a clue how to play a new game she needs.
> Who needs that?

Indeed. The key point is that, if the start of any relationship
is done by methods that *deny* honesty and open communication,
the situation will never get any better than that.

>> That difference tells us much about the Life Values of the
>> Feminist...
>>
>> >> No matter how many women mislead us as to what they want,
there will
>> >> always be a few who tell the real story.
>> >>
>> >> The moral, gentlemen?  Stand your ground.  Be nice to
yourself.  Let
>> >> her storm off in a huff.  Eventually, you'll find one who doesn't
>> >> storm off in a huff, or perhaps one who just wanted to see whether
>> >> you hold yourself in high regard, as you should.
>> >
>> > Indeed.  Perhaps the most highest regard someone deserves is
>> > how they treat others when nobody is looking.
>>
>> Quite.
>>
>> > There are women who think that the world should protect them
>> > from themselves outside of the states but they
>> > are usually regarded as immature, spoiled brats.
>>
>> Correctly, too.
>
> It amazes the Poles that a woman could get millions for putting
> a hot coffee cup between her legs.  Of course, that's
> McD's fault for making hot coffee doncha know.  Look, a woman
> threw her baby in front of a train!  Sue the train!

LOL. I hear that.

> I only wish these darwin cases would be like the former
> actor who played superman who jumped out of a window because
> he thought he could fly!  Look, gals!  You can fly!
> Don't let those sexist men tell you otherwise!!!!

Amazing, innit ? Loony, too.

>> >> > there right now) was a passive man. Generally, passive people
>> >> > take it and take it and then end up surprising everyone by
>> >> > blowing up and getting aggressive.
>> >>
>> >> As they say, "Beware the fury of the quiet
man."  Let me digress.
>> >>
>> >> There should be a similar saying.  "Beware the fury
of the quiet
>> > men."
>> >> Erin Pizzey noted with great frustration that men don't defend
>> >> themselves.  She should have followed that observation
with "yet."
>> > All
>> >> this feminist BS seems to roll off us like water off of
ducks, but it
>> >> doesn't.  Every feminazi insult rachets up the tension just a bit.
>> >> Eventually, the beam will fail, and the walls will come down.  Any
>> >> previous definition of "backlash" will be
quickly outdated.
>> >
>> > They keep hearing that and they don't take it seriously.
>> > I can't say I blame them.
>> >
>> > Then again, women wouldn't play so many of these games if
>> > men were still the gentlemen of the past.  Bluesmomma claimed
>> > that many men expect hookups.  So apparently, the barbarians
>> > may be closer to the gates.
>>
>> Indeed. Men have seen, over the last 40 years, women behave as
>> if their sex, and their use of their sexuality, was why they
>> should get free stuff.
>>
>> So, when women teach men that women are whores, and poor ones,
>> why should anyone be at all surprised that so many men *accept*
>> what they've been taught ?
>>>
>> The amazing part of this, is that the 40ish professional women,
>> who are without spouses and/or children, could tell these women
>> that that method doesn't work.
>
> Or not.  The first lesson feminism teaches young women
> is that they're NEVER wrong.  If they're wrong, it's because
> they're just TOO smart and intelligent.  They can fly!
> They can fly!  :-)

Well, we can point to the spectacular lack of flyin' women...

> Even worse, the next lesson they teach is that if their
> fantasy isn't true, it can almost appear real if they
> can get some groveling guys to tell them it is.
> If the men don't get it, act bitchy until they do.

Dr. Phil: " Hows that workin' for ya ? "

According to Reimer and O'Dowd, not that great...

> So it's like parents who spoil their children and train
> them to be crybabies and miserable.  I actually know of
> a father who took his 7 y/o son out to restaurants and
> taught him to make noise and cry if the waitress was slow.

Ouch. One promo for Dr. Phil's " teaching idiots how to
raise their kids " had a guy who bought a 6 year old a cell
phone. Reason ? " The other kids had them. " Feh.

> But using modern american woman logic, that's ok
> since he got away with it.  It's the waitresses fault
> so it's ok for him to do it.

So much for " sistahood "...

>> But, the hook up modern women's learning curve is a flat line...
>>
>> > ooga ooga,
>> > Mark Sobolewski
>>
>> Andre
>
> I think that many women learn much before they're 22 or so while
> men tend to learn slower but for a longer period of time.

Well, men tend to view such early cases as possibly being
statistical exceptions, based on the impossibility of dating
a weighted statistical sample. Its chivalry that prevents
many from acting on that possibility, thus pushing it to a
background.

> Nearly all the women I know tend to move much less often
> than men and will stay in a rotten neighborhood or
> with their families because it's comfortable to them.

The same can be said of their jobs, and thats a major reason
for the " wage gap ". Women often choose non cash comforts
over more cash.

Andre

--
" I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
                                    The Man Prayer, Red Green.


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