Steve,
For what it's worth I think your perspective here is an important one.  
I teach chess in my elementary school.  I do want to "produce" good 
chess players but chess, like learning a computer language, has more to 
offer than just an end product.  In chess students learn to think.  
Thinking is an essential part of the game.  I teach them chess skills 
such as strategies and tactics, but to apply the chess concepts requires
analytical thinking.  
I think the same is true for the argument of learning a computer 
language.  Who would decry the teaching of logical reasoning?  Isn't 
that an important aspect of computer language?  Besides, kids have to 
use their brains and (as Winnie the Pooh would say)  "Think, think 
think!"
Dan
SA> CB> Quotes are taken from a message written by Rick to Charles on
SA>07/09/96...  
SA>RP>CB> I don't often disagree with you on matters educational, but on
SA>RP>CB> this one  I'm of a different mind.  Who needs to write
SA>RP>CB> programs today, especially  in BASIC or LOGO?
SA>RP>Uh, how about programmers?
SA> 
SA> CB> What's your point?  As I said - no one *needs* to write programs
SA> CB> today -  the operating commands are not so totally integrated
SA> CB> with the  programming language, as in the early TRS machines,
SA> CB> that one needs to  have some basic understanding of computer
SA> CB> "programming", nor is software  in short supply and difficult to
SA> CB> come by.  We do not need to teach  programming in order to teach
SA> CB> the basic operation of the machine, as we  once did - and
SA> CB> programming makes up but a small percentage of computer  usage
SA> CB> today. 
SA>What total bunk.......  Of course there are significant reasons to
SA>teach  programming.  Who writes the programs you are using?  Your
SA>argument is the  underlying reason computer science is lost in the
SA>schools.  
SA>I once had a discussion with a high school principal in the teaching
SA>of  computers and why the state does not have a certification in
SA>computing.  His  response was that "any one can teach computers".
SA>Having a BS in Computer  Science, I was totally floored.  His
SA>ignorance was strictly based on the idea  that computers are only to
SA>be used for the secretarial applications such as  word processing,
SA>spread sheets and to some small extent data base management.  
SA>Why is it that so many people fail to see the phenomenal benefits of 
SA>programming.  With such a simple set up, one can explore an intense 
SA>discipline of logic, orderly thinking, refined argument and
SA>creativity.  All  this is done without the need for great expense in
SA>replaceable supplies,  cleanup or health hazard.  To waste time and
SA>thought thinking that the only  benefit to this would be to turn out
SA>programmers is to use the age old logic  studies in history only turn
SA>out historians, math can only turn out  mathematicians, etc.
SA> 
SA> 
SA> 
SA>--- DB 1.58/003138
SA>                                 
* CMPQwk 1.42 445p *... BEST SELLERS: "Speling Maid Eezy" by Dan Quayle.
--- GEcho 1.11+
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