-=> Quoting Maurice Kinal to Nancy Backus on 11-09-06  18:04 <=-

 NB>> That is where the decision to show respect comes into play.  If it 
 NB>> were fake, chances are that it would only repel, not encourage.  It
 NB>> might take some effort on the profferer's part to find some aspect,
 NB>> no matter how small, that truly is deserving of some sort of respect,
 NB>> and start there.

 MK> So how long and how much damage is should one tolerate before
 MK> reverting to a nonrespectful mode?  The problem is that often automatic
 MK> respect simply given due to someone's position often leads to much
 MK> misery which could have been avoided if one where more questioning from
 MK> the start.  The School of Hard Knocks has taught me that far too often
 MK> automatic respect leads to the paved highway to Hell.  Perhaps a
 MK> benefit of a doubt while being wary is a better option then automatic
 MK> respect simply due to position. 

I think we are talking about two different things here.  I am not
talking about a blind, uncautioned respect; nor am I talking about any
sort of blind obedience or following due to some sort of exalted
position given the leader.  I am talking of a much more basic attitude
of respectfulness that merely treats the other as having an intrinsic
value.  Giving respect doesn't in and of itself put one into a position
where one could be damaged.  A misplaced trust in someone, on the other
hand, can and often does produce damage.  Perhaps in your mind the trust
and respect are inseperable?  Admittedly, the two are often linked, and
rightly so when the person in question is both trustworthy and worthy of
respect.  But a very basic respect for anyone's person doesn't require
any other trust than your willingness to give the benefit of the doubt
even while remaining wary.  What I was talking about above, the decision
to show respect, comes into play first at this most basic level.  In
answer to your question, I wouldn't tolerate any damage being given, in
so far as I was able to control anything, yet I would continue to try to
find some aspect in which to show respect despite the situation.  My
hope would be that in not showing DISrespect, the situation might be
ameliorated, and if not, I would (respectfully) walk away from it.

 NB>> But the reality usually is that you did 
 NB>> the best you could with the situation as you saw it.

 MK> Not really.  The real problem with those is I didn't listen to my
 MK> instincts and instead listened to others that everything was okay.
 
Ok, then, maybe you made the wrong judgement call in some instances. 
Even so, at the moment, it probably seemed the best thing to be doing,
however wrong it turned out to be, in hindsight.

 NB>> past so as not the REPEAT the same error(s) of judgement.  Save the
 NB>> guilt for the things you really did intentionally do, or omit to do.

 MK> Such as listening to others who for whatever reason I was supposed to
 MK> respect? 

One can certainly disagree respectfully...  Listen, but don't
necessarily follow, unless you yourself are also sure that the advice
you are being given is indeed appropriate for the situation.  I'd call
following what turned out to be bad advice an error of judgement, btw,
not something to be guilty about, usually.  My father gave me some
doozies over the years... I learned to respect him* but not necessarily
heed his advice unless I had looked at it very closely...  There were a
number of things where he meant well, but didn't really know me as well
as he thought he did.

 NB>>> I think it is possible to combine Wary with Respect.
 MK>> I think that is called Sneaky.  :-)
 NB>> Nah... it's called Wise, generally...  
 MK> What is the difference?  A rose by any other name?

Depends on your definition of sneaky, perhaps... :)  Not showing one's
whole hand is an asset in many situations (and most games, of course). 
A wise person learns where caution is called for... and how to procede
in such a way as to not raise hackles by utilizing said caution.  :) 

 NB>> One can have/show respect for another, without blindly opening one's
 NB>> self to being taken advantage of, or worse.

 MK> That would be very difficult to successfully pull off methinks.

As at the start of this message, it would appear we are using different
definitions of respect.  Or, at least, talking on two different levels.

ttyl         neb

... Mary had a little LAMB.  The doctor was surprised.

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