>>> Clarence Hogan on Universes 
 WE> That which is the universe is ever persistent clarity of mind,
 WE> orderly yet elusive.  Chaotic the multiverse, perpetually random
 WE> confusion persistently intruding upon the universe.  For respite from
 WE> both is the nulliverse, the never present, perceivable only at its
 WE> gateway transitions of sleep, death, birth, unconsciousness, and
 WE> trance.  Clarifying all of this, however, creates yet additional
 WE> confusion. 
 
 CH> Hummmmm, ok, now am I to understand that you are considering us to
 CH> be a small universe and the universe as the "Great man"?
Nope.
 CH> If you and "the" say so, but you will never be able to prove that 
 CH> statement to me, for it is my firm belief that all things are without
 CH> a doubt decidable and all things are definitely computable, for if it
 CH> were not so, nothing would work in this universe of ours, right?
Definitely wrong.  I refer you to Godel's Incompleteness theorem and the work 
done by Turning and Post on recursiveness and effective computability.  They 
have also showed that there are questions, which if true, can be determined 
in finite time, but which if false will take forever to determine.
 
 WE> Well if you're willing to assume that people
 WE> actually do some thinking then as there are a bunch of them in the
 WE> universe, then the universe does do some thinking.   
 CH> Without a doubt, people think, but the question of the universe being
 CH> a thinking being still remains unanswered, does it not?
A rather abstruse abstraction.  The universe being beyond our full 
comprehension remains in much a mystery.  By assuming that people think, you 
may conclude that a part of the universe thinks, hence yes the universe can 
produce thought.
 CH> And just where do we find this chaos and nothing other than in 
 CH> humans who are the creators of same which fully amount to nothing
 CH> and how do you propose we find nothing?
Since humans amount to nothing you have already found nothing. -)
 CH> Since I have yet to comprehend the term nulliverse, how can I
 CH> possibly deny that which I do not fully understand?
Do you fully understand -the- universe?  Or for that matter, do you fully 
understand any universe?
 Sp> Describe the universe in 500 words or less and name 2 examples.
Wow, too much!  There's this universe that you know about because you're 
alive and there's that universe that you can't know even if you're dead. 
 
 CH> Now in your mind, you may have
 CH> a full comprehension of your multiverse and nulliverse, however, you
 CH> have still not given me a satisfactory explanation or picture of it!
Nope, I don't.  Can you give a definition or complete explanation of the 
universe?
 CH> As to where a man is when he is asleep, from what has been said
 CH> between us to this point, IMHO he would have to be at rest from the
 CH> chaos that you have been speaking about and unless his mind is active
 CH> in the  process of dreaming, he is truly in nothingness and complete
 CH> rest while his body is busy making repairs to the chaos that he
 CH> himself has created within his system and slowly bringing itself back
 CH> to peak health and efficiency!  Whatdaya' think?
I think you get the idea of a nulliverse. 
 CH> ... Once upon a time there was no time and so it shall be again!  :)
 WE> In no time at all time began for its time had come.
 CH> EXCELLENT summation in as few of words as possible!  Did you thunk
 CH> that up all by yourself or did you steal it?  :)
	Why ask unanswerable questions?  Because I enjoy a good story, don't you? 
Now let me tell you about a cosmic plasmic orgasm that went 'BANG' or did it 
go 'SHOOSH'?  Anyway once upon a nanosecond, an instant before time, there 
was an Infinite Shoosh everywheres coming out of nowheres and with it's 
coming out for the first time there was time for it's time had come.
 WE> ... I think, therefore the universe thinks.
 CH> Prove it!  :)  For the simple reason that the universe is completely
 CH> and perfectly obedient and the fact is that if it indeed did think of
 CH> it's own volition, it would no more be obedient than man is, correct?
Do what thou wilt, be the whole of the law.  ---Crowley(sp.?)
 CH> If it's not seasoned with a dash of humor, I don't want to hear it!
... Philosophy's a joke.  If it isn't, you're taking life too seriously.
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