-=> Quoting Carol Shenkenberger to Nancy Backus on 01-23-07  13:35 <=-

 NB> As I told him, stats can be used to prove just about anything...
 NB> And I don't think he's really listening to any of us...

 CS> Seems not . While cesaerians my be a bit overused, they are overall
 CS> saving  lives. Mother mortality rates are *way* down as opposed to say
 CS> 1900. 

Yup.  Ya know, I saw him touting a book that talks about how statistics
are misused, in a different echo...  Maybe he's just playing Devils
Advocate to keep a conversation going...?

 NB>> Exactly.  And also, more of the teenage-mother births are being
 NB>> classified as high-risk, as there are more and more of younger teens
 NB>> giving birth.  Babies that couldn't have made it in times past are at
 NB>> least given a chance now, with today's technology.  And sometimes that
 NB>> includes a caesarian.

 CS> Thats a somewhat historically recent thing though. Culturally we
 CS> redefined  'whats too early' around mid-1800's.  Mother death rate for
 CS> first childbirth  went way down when we culturally decided '17 is
 CS> better than 14'.  Infant  mortality wasnt that different I seem to
 CS> recall, but the mother lived to try  again.

Yes, the teenage stuff is more modern...  There does seem to have been a
recent surge in the 14-16ish mothers lately, though... and those are
certainly treated now as high-risk births, just because the mom is so
young... with a corresponding higher risk for a possible section.

 CS> Death in childbirth used to be very very common.  So common that by
 CS> age 30, men  well outnumbered women.  Stats show that when you reduce
 CS> or almost eliminate  that factor, women outnumber men all the way up
 CS> the age group. 

Yup.

 NB>> "natural childbirth mortality statistics" have been
moved over to the
 NB>> other column, just because the c-section was tried in order to try to
 NB>> save the baby.

 CS> Yes.  Mother mortality goes down too.  But then again, natural
 CS> childbirth'  sounds so good to guys who will never have to do it...  or
 CS> die from it.   Something every mother has faced front up, and personal.

Of course, there is a bit of a possible confusion in the conversation
here... there IS a difference between any vaginal delivery, medicated
and/or assisted, and a truly "natural childbirth".  As long as the
mother, and preferably father as well (or other support person), has
been prepared for the childbirth, the birth can be as natural as the
circumstances permit... and in today's medical world, with as much
intervention as is desired, or necessary should an emergency occur.  A
good preparation also at least discusses what might need to happen, or
would be possibly helpful, given certain contingencies...

ttyl             neb

... Support bacteria - they're the only culture some people have.

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