Kestrel wrote:
 
> There's a fine line in such things. One could argue the bully is doing the
> kid a favor by getting him/her used to the fact that life isn't fair, and
> bad things happen to good ppl, but it's still not right, and if I had a kid
> and had the choice of sending it to a school that cracked down on that crap
> or one that let the fur fly as it would -- I'd be in favor of the one
> cracking down on it.

Oh, definitely--I'm not saying schools shouldn't do *anything*. 
In fact, it's now law here in Washington that we have to crack
down on bullying.  But, as I'm sure everyone knows, the vast
majority of bullying happens where teachers don't see it (in the
hall, in the locker room, on the way home, etc.).  That's where
*I* got the worst of it, at least.
 
> bullying these days has a far nastier course to it than it did during my
> parent's day, and (for all I know) my day. Some kids just can't handle it,
> but instead of crying, hiding, becomign suicidal etc -- they become
> homicidal.

Which is the reason for the law.
 
> I had a miserable time in 7th grade, and sure it got better when I became as
> violent and nasty as they were and started kicking a little ass, but the
> point should have been that I never had to be in the position in the first
> place. I'm in *school* for God's sake not boot camp or terrorist training
> camp. Leave me alone. Besides -- I already well knew life wasn't fair, and
> bad things happen to good ppl. I didn't need to be tortured as a 10 - 14
> year old to have the lesson sink in. Not only that -- but our family moved
> around a lot. I was in a new school/city/neighborhood/country every year of
> my life until high school.... do you have any idea how many different
> bullies that sort of thing entails? I lived of course, but I've been exposed
> to enough rotten kids, ineffective adults, etc to last 4 or 5 lifetimes. So
> while I know, say in Reid's case, that he needs to toughen up -- I am not at
> all opposed to having school authorities (if the bullies parents won't
> handle it) smack them down firmly and permanently. Put the little bullies in
> juvenile hall for a few days so *they* learn there's always someone bigger
> and nastier than they are.... though of course the fear there is that the
> little darling will be hurt, or worse -- find his heart's desire and become
> even worse. (and "her's/she" are not excluded... girls can
be as bad as
> boys)

Or worse.  We all want to stop this, but we sort of flail around,
trying to find ways to fix it.  We here at school have harassment
forms, where kids can write up other kids, but it still happens.
It *still happens*. And kids who can break down and punch out
someone who's been bullying them are (hopefully) less likely to
pick up a shotgun at Wal-Mart and take it into their own hands
that way.
 
> The sad thing isn't that kids aren't allowed to fight back -- it's that they
> have to fight at all.

That won't stop.  Even kids from homes where that has *never*
been acceptable have ended up as bullies--my sister, for example,
who greatly regrets it now.  If kids don't / can't say anything,
we'll never know (and sometimes, if we can't prove anything,
nothing can happen anyway).  It *is* sad, but it's sad that
people can't leave their cars in park-and-rides without them
being broken into or stolen, too. :(

Lissa WeGottaFigureThisOut Wingling

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