Appendix
This Appendix presents a detailed summary of several interviews.
1. R.F.
R.F., a three-year-old girl, was interviewed on June 21, 1985, by
the Essex County Prosecutor's Office at the Wee Care facility.
After several minutes of small talk, R.F. told the investigator
that Kelly sometimes sings in school. In response to her inquiry,
R.F. indicated that the school owned a piano and that she would
show the investigators where it was. At that point, the interview
went [*325] off the record and R.F. apparently took the interviewers
to the piano room. On their return to the interview room, the
following colloquy took place between the investigator and R.F.
The investigator asked, "Do [**52] you remember what you were saying
to me? You said, -- you said Kelly did a lot of bad things to the
children."
R.F. responded, "No, she's in jail. . . . Because she did a lot of
bad things.
R.F. was unable to identify any of the "bad things" that Kelly did
because, according to R.F., "she only did them to D.A." Then, after
several minutes of trying to get R.F. to draw pictures, including
one of Kelly, the investigators returned to the alleged abuse. An
investigator asked if Kelly or Brenda (another teacher at Wee Care)
had ever hurt her. R.F. was clear and unambiguous with her response.
R.F. was absolutely certain that they had done nothing to her. The
investigators continued to press the questioning. R.F. continually
stressed that she had not been hurt or touched. R.F. did say,
however, that "they (Kelly and Brenda) did hurt D.A." The interview
continued uneventfully, ending with R.F.  telling the interviewers
that she would like to come back to the school.
A detective from the Prosecutor's office interviewed R.F. again on
July 3, 1985. The detective approached his questioning of R.F.
somewhat differently than had the previous investigators in that
he appeared not to have any warm up [**53] period with the child.
Prior to engaging in any small talk or even introducing himself to
R.F., he asked her "where's Kelly?" In an effort to find out what
relationship R.F. had with Kelly the investigator asked the following
questions:
Detective: Do you know Kelly?
R.F.: Yes.
Detective: Was Kelly your teacher?
R.F. Yeah, but she did a lot of bad things to me.
Detective: What did she do to you that was bad?
R.F.: Yesterday she did something. But I don't know what it is.
[*326]
Detective: Sure you do, would you like to show me instead of tell
me?
R.F. then drew a picture of Kelly, giving her a "mad" face. She
indicated to him that she drew a mad face simply because she wanted
Kelly to have a mad face.  The detective continued the interview
asking pointed questions:
Detective: Do you think Kelly can hurt you?
R.F.: No.
Detective: Did Kelly say she can hurt you? Did Kelly ever tell you
she can turn into a monster?
R.F.: Yes.
Detective: What did she tell you?
R.F.: She was gonna turn into a monster.
* * * *
Detective: What did Kelly, -- was Kelly a good girl or a bad girl?
R.F.: She was a bad girl.
Detective: She was a bad girl, were there any other [**54] teachers
that were bad?
R.F.: No.
Detective: No, O.K. Kelly was the only bad girl? What did Kelly do
that made her a bad girl?
R.F.: She readed [sic].
Detective: She what?
R.F.: She um, she readed [sic] and she came to me and I said no,
no, no.
Detective: Did she hurt you?
R.F.: I hurted [sic] her.
Detective: How did you hurt her?
R.F.: Because she, I didn't want to write, and she write and I said
no, no, no, no, and I hit her.
* * * *
The Detective then questioned R.F. using anatomically correct dolls
in an apparent attempt to elicit from R.F. the level of understanding
she had concerning certain body parts.
Detective: What are these?
R.F.: Dolls.
Detective: O.K. But what am I pointing to? What's that?
R.F.: An eye, mouth, nose arm.
Detective: What do you call this right here?
R.F.: Vagina.
Detective: What's this right here?
[*327]
R.F.: Tooshie.
Detective: Tooshie. O.K. What do you call these right up here?
R.F.: I don't know.
Detective: O.K. what do you want to name them? Do you want to name
them breasts?
R.F.: Yeah.
Detective: Now we are going to pretend that this is a little boy.
R.F.: Let me see the little boy.
Detective: [**55] It has no arms or legs or anything, but we are
going to pretend that it's a little boy doll, O.K.? What do you
call the little thing between the little boy's legs?
R.F.: Um, feet.
Detective: No, up farther between the legs. Right here.
R.F.: Vagina.
Detective: No, it's a vagina on a little girl, what is it on a
little boy?
R.F.: Penis.
Detective: Penis, very good. O.K. Now did you ever see a little
boy's penis in the school?
R.F.: Yes, M.Z.'s.
Detective: O.K. Who else was there?
R.F.: That's it, only one.
Detective: Just M.Z. and you? Was Kelly there?
R.F.: She was at jail.
The questioning of R.F. continued; the detective sought to uncover
any "bad things" Kelly might have done to R.F. or to anyone else.
The following sequence of questions and answers was the first time
the use of utensils entered the discussion:
Detective: Now, did Kelly ever do any bad things to you?
R.F.: No.
Detective: Not at all?
R.F.: No.
Detective: Did Kelly ever hurt you?
R.F.: No.
Detective: Do these look familiar?
R.F.: What are them [sic]?
Detective: You tell me what they are?
R.F.: Knife.
Detective: Knife.
R.F.: Do you have anything to eat in [**56] here?
[*328]
Detective: We're going to pretend that this is a spoon, O.K.?
R.F.: O.K., and this is a knife.
Detective: Did Kelly ever do anything to you with a knife that hurt
you? Or bad things to you with a knife?
R.F.: No.
Detective: No. O.K. Do [sic] she ever do bad things or hurt you
with a spoon? -- No. Did she ever do bad things or hurt you with
a knife -- I mean fork? OK. What about a wooden spoon? Did you ever
see her do bad things or hurt anybody?
R.F.: Um, no.
After concluding the discussion of utensils, and whether Kelly had
used utensils on R.F. or any other child, the discussion once again
focused on Kelly's alleged mistreatment of R.F. The questioning of
this child continued for several more transcript pages. In an
attempt to obtain additional information from R.F., the detective
told her that he had spoken to several of her friends already and
that the information she could provide would help her friends.
2. P.I.
On June 27, 1985, investigators from DYFS and from the Prosecutor's
Office interviewed P.I., a four-and-a-half year old. The interview
appeared to be adversarial from the outset. P.I. no longer wanted
to participate in any interviews. In an [**57] attempt to convince
P.I. to cooperate, Investigator (I) told P.I. that he and his
colleague had spoken with "lots of other [helpful] kids" since they
had last spoken, and that the sooner P.I. cooperated, the sooner
they could get out of there. P.I. became annoyed with his persistence
telling him that he did not want to talk to him, and stating
emphatically, "I hate you." Investigator (I) attempted to calm P.I.
and reassured him that he really did not hate the investigator, in
fact he knew that P.I. secretly liked him. Over the course of what
--- FMail/386 1.0g
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