BK>>  Israel took land from a country that had no right to it?

 BA> There was no national government in Palestine in 1948.  The

 Irrelevant to the entire topic. The existance of a national
 government has never been a moral requirement for the right to
 self determination. And there is no legal requirement.

 BA> area had not been autonomous for over a century as it had
 BA> been part of the Ottoman Empire.  After the collapse of the

 Being conquered does not remove the right to self determination,
 only prohibits it's exercise.

 BA> Ottoman Empire following WW I the area was administered by
 BA> Britain.  While the Israelis *formed* a nation there, there
 BA> had been no independent nation there for several centuries.

 Again, irrelevant. When did Germany become a real nation? Did
 any other country have the right to come in and divide up the
 country before that?

 BK>> And how does that give them any rights?

 BA> Israelis and Arabs living peacefully in Israel have rights.

 Individuals have rights everywhere. Human rights. However, that
 does not confer governmental rights. Esp not the right to rule.

 BA>  The Israeli governments (and FTM all governments) have
 BA>  powers.  It's an organized government that exercises
 BA>  control over the area, that's all that's required.

 That's all that's required from the might makes right point of
 view. From the point of view of "Just governments derive their
 powers from the consent of the governed", the organization of a
 government does not justify anything.

 Exercising control over an area is conquest or colonization or
 both, if those exercising control are not original to that area.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn{at}sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Annoy liberals AND conservatives, think for yourself
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