To:
From: "Steve Oostrom"
Reply-To: trekcreative{at}yahoogroups.com
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>JM - Well, as a reader if you say there's a problem with clarity, there IS=
,
whether or not I think there should be. It's solved with:
"I'm not sure who I should hate more," Erika grumbled. "You or
Matt."
"I'd go with the latter-at least in this case. He said, and I quote=
,
'A little "archaic asininity" might do Captain Donaldson some good.'"
Mantovanni arched a brow. "Have any idea what that means?"
>I could even add, "And continued" or "and
concluded" after "brow." What do
you think?
Clearer now, but I'd put the two paragraphs together. Joe, I know, likes
i= t just the way he has it.
>JM - The problem with this story is that it was written and posted well
before 13th FLEET ran its course.
>By the way, even I don't recommend reading 13th FLEET randomly. Read it in
order. THEN "The Cotillion" will make much more sense.
The best way to approach "Liberty" is not click on
"Fiction," but on "Story=
Chronology," so that
we get the stories in chronological order. I'm surprised there's another
w= ay to list stories. Can
you imagine the mess in "Athena" if I listed the episodes without
the episo= de numbers and in
alphabetical order? No doubt, I'd be getting e-mails saying, "What
the hec= k happened in *that*
story?" I'd recommend clicking on "Story Chronology."
>JM - To me, it's more for extended narratives---if a character is relaying
events of information, for example. The give and take of conversation is
better handled my way, in my opinion. Once you're used to it, I think it's
far more effective.
I disagree with that. I don't think it is better handled in that fashion. =
As an exercise, I took
a passage in a story I'm writing (non-Trek) that is a sustained dialogue
be= tween two characters
and which there are some parantethical thoughts from one of the characters
= to show her shifting
moods as she hears what the other person is saying. I broke up the
paragra= phs into more Joe-
like formats, and I didn't like the effects. I had to throw in more lines
= to indicate who is saying
what, and it just didn't flow as well as the original version. Joe might
l= ike his style, but it's not
one that I'm going to emulate in my writing.
>JM - Noted. I'll examine this tendency.
I think it's pretty standard in published writing. I can almost imagine
ed= itors changing what an
author said into this particular style. Although published books might
occ= asionally have one
person's dialogue split over multiple paragraphs, it is not so common that
= it stands out.
>JM - The interesting thing about what you said, Steven, is that Mantovanni=
i
s no Kirk---as a matter of fact, FAR from it. He's in his mid-40's and has
had sex with only five or six women in his entire life as of 2378. This
wil= l
increase to seven post-"The Archer Imperative," I think (though
we'll not SEE the sex "on screen," as it were; it'll be
implied/stated, but not detailed), and perhaps eight after the entire
Romans cycle is complete (another where depiction may or may not occur).
Subsequently, he may, for the rest of his life, add perhaps one more to
that total.
Of course, I can see that. His numbers might not be Kirk-like, but his
tec= hnique is. I mean,
using my own characters, I simply can't see Thorpe acting like that with
an= y woman. It
reminds me more of Kirk than some of the other captains I'm aware of. So
f= ar, it has been
established that Thorpe has been intimate with one woman for sure, and
perh= aps three others
(two when he was a teenager and before he joined Starfleet and a third that=
is part of his
backstory, in an incident that has not been mentioned in any actual
"Athena= " story). He
will never be a Kirk, and quite likely won't even reach Mantovanni numbers.
>I've made what I've gradually become aware is the HUGE mistake of
chronicling ALL of them, and thus giving people the impression he's banging
EVERYONE (as opposed to Kirk, who IS). It's almost certainly a problem I'll
have to address, because you're not the first person to say "He's got
a Kirk-like libido," when he can, until 2375, count on the fingers of
one han= d
the number of women with whom he's been intimate, and never reaches ten in = a
lengthy lifetime.
>JM - OK, then... this will probably help with what I was trying to
accomplish with the Mantovanni/Donaldson relationship---assuming you wish t= o
reveal an important aspect of another story.
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
F
O
R
"S
T
A
R
C
R
O
S
S
E
D"
>From the text (oh, and you can read this story, Tim; it has a compromising
situation, but there's no graphic stuff and no actual sex---wasn't
necessary): Donaldson has just told Mantovanni that she's left March
Patterson, but that it doesn't means she's coming back to HIM:
"You're not upset!" she accused. "You're. you're glad!"
"Not precisely," he assured her, affording her one of his rare
smiles. "Perhaps I simply came to the same conclusion you did."
She found herself suddenly eager to hear what he had to say.
"Which is?" she prodded.
"That we're two friends that had a wonderful 24 hours together
almost three years ago, a few rendezvous' since. and that in our eagerness
to avoid confronting the unmitigated disasters our respective love lives
ha= d
become, we latched onto that as if it were some sort of 'eternal romance.'"
For a moment, she was bemused. and then burst into relieved
laughter.
"Yeah," she agreed. "Something like that."
Erika Donaldson sagged against the wall, sighed and closed her eyes=
.
"I'm so glad I didn't hurt you," she murmured.
"And I, you," he responded.
>I have no idea if that helps, but---
>---there it is.
More reading is called for here.
Steve
The Universe Unbounded.
Visit "Star Trek: Athena" at http://ussathena.iwarp.com
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>JM - Well, as a reader if you say there's a problem with clarity,
there
IS,whether or not I think there should be. It's solved
with:
"I'm not sure who I should hate more," Erika grumbled. "You
orMatt."
"I'd go with the latter-at least in this case. He said, and I
quote,'A little "archaic asininity" might do Captain
Donaldson some
good.'"
Mantovanni arched a brow. "Have any idea what that
means?">I could even add, "And
continued" or
"and concluded" after "brow." What doyou
think?
Clearer now, but I'd put the two paragraphs
together. Joe, I know, likes it just the way he has
it.>JM - The problem with this
story is that it was written and posted wellbefore 13th FLEET ran
its course.>By the way, even
I don't recommend reading 13th FLEET randomly. Read it inorder.
THEN "The Cotillion" will make much more sense.The best way to approach "Liberty"
is not click on "Fiction," but on "Story Chronology,"
so that
we get the stories in
chronological order.
I'm surprised there's another way to list stories.
Can
you imagine the mess in
"Athena" if I listed the
episodes without the episode numbers and in
alphabetical order? No
doubt, I'd be getting
e-mails saying, "What the heck happened in *that*
story?" I'd
recommend clicking on "Story
Chronology."
>JM - To me, it's more for extended
narratives---if a character is
relayingevents of information, for example. The give and take of
conversation isbetter handled my way, in my opinion. Once you're
used to it,
I think it'sfar more effective.
I disagree with that. I
don't think it is
better handled in that fashion. As an exercise, I
took
a passage in a story I'm writing
(non-Trek) that
is
a sustained dialogue between two characters
and which there are some
parantethical thoughts
from one of the characters to show her shifting
moods as she hears what the other person is
saying. I broke up the paragraphs into more Joe-
like formats, and I didn't like
the effects.
I had to throw in more lines to indicate who is saying
what, and it just didn't flow as well as the
original version. Joe might like his style, but it's
not
one that I'm going to emulate in my
writing.
>JM - Noted. I'll examine this tendency.
I think it's pretty standard in published
writing. I can almost imagine editors changing what
an
author said into this particular
style.
Although published books might occasionally have one
person's dialogue split over
multiple paragraphs,
it is not so common that it stands
out.>JM - The interesting thing
about what you said, Steven, is that Mantovanni is no Kirk---as a
matter of fact, FAR from it. He's in his mid-40's and hashad sex
with only five or six women in his entire life as of 2378. This
willincrease to seven post-"The Archer Imperative," I
think (though we'll notSEE the sex "on screen," as it
were; it'll be implied/stated, but notdetailed), and perhaps
eight after the entire Romans cycle is complete(another where
depiction may or may not occur). Subsequently, he may, forthe
rest of his life, add perhaps one more to that total.
Of course, I can see
that. His numbers might
not be Kirk-like, but his technique is. I mean,
using my own characters, I simply
can't see Thorpe
acting like that with any woman. It
reminds me more of Kirk than some
of the other
captains I'm aware of. So far, it has been
established that Thorpe has been
intimate with one
woman for sure, and perhaps three others
(two when he was a teenager and
before he joined
Starfleet and a third that is part of his
backstory, in an incident that has
not been
mentioned in any actual "Athena" story).
He
will never be a Kirk, and quite
likely won't even
reach Mantovanni numbers.
>I've made what I've gradually become aware is
the HUGE mistake
ofchronicling ALL of them, and thus giving people the impression
he's bangingEVERYONE (as opposed to Kirk, who IS). It's almost
certainly a problem I'llhave to address, because you're not the
first person to say "He's got aKirk-like libido," when
he can, until 2375, count on the fingers of one handthe number of
women with whom he's been intimate, and never reaches ten in
alengthy lifetime.>JM - OK, then...
this will probably help with what I was trying toaccomplish with
the Mantovanni/Donaldson relationship---assuming you wish
toreveal an important aspect of another
story.SPOILERFOR"ST
ARCROSSED">From
the text (oh, and you can read this story, Tim; it has a
compromisingsituation, but there's no graphic stuff and no actual
sex---wasn'tnecessary): Donaldson has just told Mantovanni that
she's left MarchPatterson, but that it doesn't means she's coming
back to
HIM:
"You're not upset!" she accused. "You're. you're
glad!"
"Not precisely," he assured her, affording her one of his
raresmiles. "Perhaps I simply came to the same conclusion
you
did."
She found herself suddenly eager to hear what he had to
say.
"Which is?" she
prodded.
"That we're two friends that had a wonderful 24 hours
togetheralmost three years ago, a few rendezvous' since. and that
in our eagernessto avoid confronting the unmitigated disasters
our respective love lives hadbecome, we latched onto that as if
it were some sort of 'eternal
romance.'"
For a moment, she was bemused. and then burst into
relievedlaughter.
"Yeah," she agreed. "Something like
that."
Erika Donaldson sagged against the wall, sighed and closed her
eyes.
"I'm so glad I didn't hurt you," she
murmured.
"And I, you," he
responded. >I have no idea if that
helps, but--->---there it is.
More reading is called for
here.
Steve
The Universe
Unbounded.
Visit "Star Trek: Athena" at http://ussathena.iwarp.com;">http://ussathena.iwarp.comhttp://ussathena.iwarp.com">http://ussathena.iwarp.com;
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