In a message to Robert Linenweber  David Kirschbaum wrote:
 DK> The recon missions were safe as houses.  Two VNAF pilots in a pretty
 DK> standard Cessna, as I recall, and the Recon guy sitting in the back
 DK> seat.  They'd navigate us to the general area (all at around 5000
 DK> feet or so, way way WAY high), and then the Recon guy would have to
 DK> convince them to fly over what he actually had to look at.  We never
 DK> liked the VNAF pilots for recon because you couldn't _see_ anything;
 DK> they wouldn't get low enough for you to get a decent look at the
You don't happen to remember that "pretty standard Cessna" do you?  There was 
the O-2 (Cessna Skymaster) that the USAF flew but I don't remember VNAF 
having any.  They did fly O-1s, but that wouldn't be two pilots in front 
(even for a couple little VNAF guys.  ---  I was the situation you described 
except in reverse.  We flew O-1s and carried ARVN observers (O-1 to O-3). 
They would meet us with a list of grid coordinates.  We would fly to the grid 
and then circle until they had seen what they wanted to see.  After that we 
would be off and looking at the world on our own.  We had orders not to go 
below 1,500 AGL except on takeoff and landing, so we might not have been much 
lower than the VNAF guys you described.  We had what was described as a "two 
ship line."  We didn't fly west of the two ship line without another O-1. The 
low ship flew more in the 1,500 AGL level and the high ship flew would be at 
least 1,000 above or more if weather permitted.  The high ship was needed 
because we would lose communication with everyone when we were back there low 
and in the mountains, plus if you were back there alone and had a problem it 
was likely you were going to win the SGLI Sweepstakes there.
 DK> While the Army guys in their L-19's would get right on _down_ there!
I know the guys you flew with.  Cat Killer.  That was the 220th RAC.  We were 
Black Ace, the 21st RAC.  They flew the northern half of I Corp and we flew 
the southern half.  They were under the same 1,500 AGL rule as us.  The 
difference was we ignored the rule some times and they obeyed the rule some 
times.  ---  All things considered, I think we were on the right track.  The 
220th took an awful lot of loses that weren't in keeping with the mission 
they were trying to perform.  ---  The way it worked with us is a pilot would 
go down low, get the scare of his life, and then go back up.  Depending on 
the pilot's personality they might never come back down again or they might 
be back down in 15 minutes.  We had a couple pilots who spent their whole 
time low.  They are dead.  A few years ago I finally got the stomach to call 
the brother of the one pilot who was closest to me.  He said the way he 
figured it his brother got killed in Vietnam looking for a thrill rather than 
by the enemy.  He said he had a Corvette that he rolled and had several other 
accidents with before he left for Nam.  I tried to talk all around it, but he 
was right.
 DK> as they came back to our CCC camp at Kontum from a mission .. the
Well heck.  No doubt about it, if you were there you saw the war with a 
capital W.
 DK> this) was a beautiful waterfall!
I remember towards the end of the rainy season what beautiful waterfalls 
there were.  With its mountains, beaches, and flat lands, Vietnam was such a
beautiful country.
 DK> Yep, quite an experience .. despite the green tracers.  I had a lot
I never saw green tracers myself.  If I remember correctly, they were .50 
al.
 DK> the US guys who flew for the Headhunters and Pink Panthers and the
Well now, reading this again, Headhunters wasn't the company north of us. 
They were south when I was there.  I don't remember where.  I think they were 
the 74th RAC.  Of course the companies moved around, so depending on what 
year we're talking about they could be in a different place.  My unit, the 
21st RAC, had been in Tay Ninh about 9 months before I got there.  The old 
guys were full the of the Tay Ninh stories.  I spent both tours in Chu Lai.
 DK> other outfits that supported us "Deep Within Enemy-Held Territory)
 DK> there in the tri-border region.
That was definitely south of us.  We had Laos along our western border.
 DK> West of DakTo .. that might've been me :-).  Or if the names "HOTEL
 DK> 9" or "CHARLEY 7" or "The Bra" or "LEGHORN" ring a bell ...
DakTo yes, but I can't remember where it was in relation to us.  I got lost 
as a son of a gun one time and I ended up at an SF base that wasn't even in 
our AO.  We also had to evacuate to a base more in your area during a 
typhoon.  Again, fuzzy memory and I can't put the names with the places 
anymore.  "The bra" rings a bell, but I suspect there were a lot of places 
with the same nickname.
 DK> David Kirschbaum SGM, USA SF (Ret) Recon 10, SOA (CCC)
Bob Linenweber, LTC, USAR
first put on a uniform March 1996 and still in uniform (and just passed a PT 
test yesterday) -- and darn proud to make your aquaintance. 
... There is safety in numbers - Participate in the "Wings" Program!
--- QuickBBS 2.81 Ovr
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