-=>> Bob Klahn wrote to Dave Drum <=-

 DD>> This would offer those with physical impediments - blind,
 DD>> deaf, amputee, paraplegic, etc. a chance to serve their
 DD>> country and *earn* their right to vote. OTOH, basic

 BK>>  Even they can fill some slot in the military.

 DD> Why do you have this stick up your butt about military
 DD> service? If a person cannot wield a weapon then that person
 DD> should not be in the military. Period.

 Why not? Conscientious objectors serve as medics.

 DD> In some (civilian,
 DD> non-combat) support function - thereby freeing up a troop
 DD> who *IS* capable of wielding a weapon.

 There are a great many support functions that are filled by
 military personel. I want to reduce the number of civilians
 doing the support jobs. The point of being in the military is,
 you go where you are sent and do what you are told to do. That
 doesn't apply to civilians. Service is doing what is needed, not
 what you want to do.

 You own words, immediately below, are pretty much what I am
 advocating.

 DD>> military training should be required of all who are
 DD>> physically able ... using the Marine Corps philosophy that
 DD>> everyone is a rifleman first and a (whatever) second. Those
 DD>> who have gone through the training would then keep their
 DD>> basic weapon for the rest of their lives ... ready to
 DD>> spring to action at a moment's notice. Latter day Minute
 DD>> Men as it were.

 bk>>  Even conscientious objectors can serve.

 DD>> Yup.

 bk>>>  And it should not be a pre-requisite for voting, but simpley
 bk>>>  required.

 DD>> Nope. There should be some extra (potential) reward for
 DD>> putting your arse on the line. Those not serving and just

 BK>>  What I said, required, not optional.

 DD> I disagree. Those not serving voluntarily are automatically
 DD> second-class residents (not citizens). If they do not value
 DD> the country highly enough to volunteer their service what
 DD> sort of citizen/troop/voter would they make?  I volunteered

 As good as those drafted in the wars of the 20th century.

 DD> when I was seventeen. You volunteered. Many were drafted.

 Many volunteered as an alternative to being drafted. I would
 guess most who fought in vietnam were drafted. I believe most
 who served in WWII were drafted, as they stopped enlistments and
 drafted all those who served after a short time. Don't know for
 sure how long that lasted, but about 11 million men were drafted
 in that period.

 DD> And many did not serve at all.

 Yep.

 ...

 bk>>>  After I saw the disaster term limits caused in Michigan I got to
 bk>>>  doubting the principle. As the Toledo Blade's ombudsman, who is
 bk>>>  in Michigan and a prof at a journalism school there, as well as
 bk>>>  a long time journalist wrote, when the Michigan budget was
 bk>>>  practically impossible to balance there was not one single
 bk>>>  member of the legislature who had been there just 6 years before
 bk>>>  when a lot of those programs and tax cuts had been voted in.

 DD>> So what? If they were responsible and in tune to the needs
 DD>> of the job they should have done what was necessary and
 DD>> screw the special interests and their lobbyists.

 BK>>  If they were. Most of those running for short terms like that
 BK>>  are single issue or limited issue politicans. Get what they want
 BK>>  and screw the rest.

 DD> Aaaaahhhh ... but, that is why we need to change the
 DD> system. So that no one gets more than two terms and the
 DD> single issue doofuses got subsumed in a new class every
 DD> election.

 A new class of single issue doofuses.

 ...

 DD>>> enough for our descendants to pay off the huge bills the
 DD>>> Bushies and the Obamites have run up.

 BK>>  Go back to Reagan. Remember, half the debt Bush left Obama was
 BK>>  built up before he took office.

 DD> Don't forget George II. And his promise "Read my lips, No
 DD> new taxes!"  Which he had to give the lie to after
 DD> increasing the national debt even further than the massive
 DD> pile that Ray-Guns left him.

 That is why I usually refer to Reagan/Bush. They both did it.
 But Ronnie set the tone.

 BK>>  ...

 bk>>>  If we tip over into depression the economy will contract
 bk>>>  significantly. A 30% contraction in GDP would mean the debt load
 bk>>>  would instantly jump to 128% of GDP. A 50% contraction would
 bk>>>  jump the debt to 180% of GDP. I doubt any country has ever
 bk>>>  survived a debt load like that.

 bk>>>  And we can't even start a war to get us out of it.

 DD> Nope, George III already took that option off the table.

 That plus it would require a very large war, and all those big
 enough have nuclear weapons.

 DD>> Ain't no easy answers, are there?

 BK>>  In right wing fantasy land.

 DD> Well, the conservatives on the Supreme Court are the
 DD> activists. And the liberals have proved to be the
 DD> incremental, cautious, restrained justices. Odd, that.

 DD> Ain't no easy *CORRECT* answers, then.  Bv)=

  Yeah.

BOB KLAHN bob.klahn{at}sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... Bush's strategy: "Leave our men in Iraq to fight and bleed and die."
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