Quotes are taken from a message written by Steve to Charles on 08/10/96...
SA>SA>Daily planning is programming.
SA>
SA>CB> I must admit, words seem to be getting in our way - I did NOT envision 
SA>CB> daily planning as computer programming.  
SA>
SA>The skills are the same. 
SA>Is that not what different learning stuyles are all about?
I don't think the skills ARE the same.  Programming involves the use of 
an artificial language to build a set of instructions for a computer.  
Daily planning involves using one's own language to write a few things 
on a calendar.  If you mean that both procedures require some degree of 
organization, that's true - but so does doing a load of laundry, washing 
the kitchen floor and even sweeping the horse manure out of a stall, but 
we don't teach all of those things in school either.
SA>The skills are the same. 
SA>Is that not what problem solving is all about?
No.  Problem solving requires a broad range of skills and problem 
solving is but one of the skills required to program a computer (and a 
very specific type of problem solving, at that).  Problem solving and 
programming are not synonyms.
SA>SA> Organized thought is programming. 
SA>
SA>CB> I don't think so.
SA>
SA>The skills are the same.  
SA>Is that not what logic is all about?
No.  Logic is a branch of study that transcends far beyond what limited 
use it gets in programming.  Programming and logic are not synonymous.
SA>Horseless carriage developed before decent roads, Ford saw beyond the 
trees.
SA>Does this justify not using the valuable tool that a computer is?
Computers do not yet have the track record of the automobile.  It took 
cars quite a few decades to catch on and become as popular as they are 
now - and it is possible that someday a computer in the home will be as 
common as an automobile in the garage is now.  However, do you think 
that, in the days of the horseless carriage, everyone in school was 
forced to learn how to build an automobile?  I don't think so, yet that 
is what you are suggesting - that everyone, even those who don't own or 
use a computer, be forced to learn how to build the software needed to run 
one.
SA>They will, the computer will replace the telephone.  Why wait?
You are nothing, if not persistent.
SA>So, maybe my argument is not the first? Maybe you might 
SA>rethink something here?
Not a chance .  The more I argue this, the more righteous I become.  
I'm doing an excellent job of convincing myself, even if it is 
ineffective on you.
SA>So, you will throw away a whole generation of students 
SA>before you consider a new teaching style?
I am teaching the kids something they actually ALL might have some use for.
SA>So, instead of supporting your issue, you are claiming this as a personal 
SA>attack.
It was.
SA>Uhhhn YOU are the one that seems to want to hold 
SA>programming at it's lowest level and maybe therefore 
SA>keeping it away from the protected, teacher centered 
SA>universe.
What?
SA>Programming allows the child to progress independantly.
So does every other subject we teach them.  The point is to teach to the 
broadest possible need.
SA>And what foreign language is that? I will be willing to bet 
SA>that it is English.
In some cases - in other instances it is French, German, Chinese, etc.  
With over 3 billion people in China, and with China emerging as an economic
power, how long do you think English will be the language of choice?
SA>Their reasons are more powerful than ours. There is an 
SA>economic benefit to that, not the socioligical/cultural 
SA>reasons we have for French and Spanish.  Ugandans are not 
SA>learning French and Spanish.
I have no way of knowing that.  Do you?  Or are you just speculating?
SA>I believe that if they took a computer programming 
SA>approach, our students would have a far more retention of 
SA>the language than the conversaional approach.
I believe that you do.
Chuck Beams
Fidonet - 1:2608/70
cbeams@future.dreamscape.com
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* UniQWK #5290* Byebyte - Losing a file in your computer.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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