-=> On 12-06-97  23:31, Chuck Horn did testify and affirm <=-
-=> to David Hartung concerning PBS <=-
 
 DH> Actually, I am thinking of joining the American unCivil
 DH> Liberties disUnion, and see how long it would take them to
 DH> kick me out!
 CH> Somebody help me out here. I consider myself to be
 CH> conservative but I admire the work the ACLU has done in
 CH> forcing the courts to acknowledge the freedoms guaranteed
 CH> in the Constitution. I concur that they have a liberal
 CH> agenda, but their efforts have helped to define the powers
 CH> and limitations of government and that should be an end
 CH> that we conservatives can agree with. 
I disagree. RP has given you some info on the goals of the
ACLU and I'll append more, but for now I'll simply point
out that the ACLU have "helped to define the powers and
limitations of government "ONLY TO THE EXTENT WHICH THAT
EFFORT ADVANCES THE ACLU'S PHILOSOPHY". The ACLU has no
interest in any advancement of civil liberties which at the
same time obstruct socialism and, in fact, actively
opposes such advancement. 
 CH> For example, you and I might think that affirmative action
 CH> is wrong, but until some outfit like the ACLU takes a case
 CH> to the Supreme Court - and defends it to the very best of
 CH> their ability - the issue can never be settled. 
That's exactly the point - neither the ACLU nor any of the
poverty pimp organizations will permit such a case to reach
the Supreme Court. In fact, they bought out the last such
case on the eve of its hearing in order to keep the Court
out of the issue. 
 CH> If the ACLU champions a cause you don't like and wins it
 CH> means one of three things -
 CH> 1) The court was inept -OR-
 CH> 2) Your side did an inadequate job championing your position
 CH> -OR- 3) You're wrong.
 CH> You can condemn the courts for being inept, or you can
 CH> condemn your own side for not doing a good enough job, but
 CH> you can't condemn the ACLU when the courts rule in their
 CH> favor. 
 CH> So somebody give me a reason to hate the ACLU like you all
 CH> seem to. 
The same ACLU that defends burning of a stolen flag as
"free speech" opposes student Bible clubs at school.
The ACLU claims that "the people" in the Second Amendment
is a collective right while "the people" in every other
amendment is an individual right.
But the final, and major, objection to the ACLU activities
is that they are generally a means of obtaining thru
judicial action that which is impossible by legislation. It
is only recently that conservatives have formed groups
which can go toe-to-toe with the ACLU - groups such as
Justice Watch and the Heritage Foundation.
In the words of Roger Baldwin,
First, on the nature of the ACLU:
"The ACLU is a private organization, and a private
organization is like a church. You don't take non-believers
into the church. We are a church; we have a creed and only
true believers should lead us."
And what was that creed?
"I am for Socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for
abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence
and compulsion. I seek social ownership of property, the
abolition of the proptertied class, and sole control by
those who produce wealth. COMMUNISM IS THE GOAL. It all
sums up into one single purpose-- the abolition of
dog-eat-dog under which we live."
And how do they carry out this creed?
"All my associates in the struggle for civil liberties take
a class position, though many of them don't know it. I too
take a class position. It is anti-capitalist and
pro-revolutionary. I champion civil liberty as the best of
the non-violent means of building the power on which the
workers' rule must be based. If I aid the reactionaries to
get free speech now and then, if I got outisde the class
struggle to fight against censorship, it is only because
those liberties help to create a more hospitable atmosphere
for working class liberties. The class struggle is the
central conflict of the world; all others are incidental."
("Roger Baldwin: Founder of the American Civil Liberties
Union", by Peggy Lamson. pages 232, 192, & 191
respectively.)
... How do you save a Liberal from drowning? Take your foot off his head.
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