mark_sobolewski{at}yahoo.com wrote:
> bluesmama wrote:
>
>>>>It might be more natural, but it seems more fair to me that the
>>>
>>>person
>>>
>>>>who initates the date pay, whether that is a man or a woman, and
>>>
>>>though
>>>
>>>>it doesn't happen as often (because women have been socialized to
>>>
>>>wait
>>>
>>>>for a man to ask
>>>
>>>This would be similar to men who are slobs and have their
>>>wives who work 50 hours a week outside of the home clean
>>>up after them argue:
>>>
>>>"Hey!  Us men have been socialized to have you gals clean up
>>>after us!  I'm a gentleman!  Burp!"
>>>
>>>In other words, it's doesn't take much
"socialization" for people
>>>to realize they enjoy being mooches, not taking emotional
>>>risks, and dropping their socks on the floor for others
>>>to clean up.   If all of your friends jumped off bridges
>>>and started smoking would you...?
>>
>>A reason is not an excuse, it's just a way to understand why people
>
> do
>
>>things the way they do. Men and women both have contradictory social
>>expectations placed on them - and as a woman I've had to struggle
>
> with
>
>>conflicting ideas like be strong, but feminine because a man needs to
>>feel like a man;
>
>
> Sometimes it's hard to be a woman...
>
> Yes, it's the MAN'S fault that he has to "feel like a man"
> when you choose him precisely for those traits.  :-)
>
>
>>be intelligent, but not too intelligent because it
>>might be threatening; be sexy but not too sexy because then you're
>>trashy, but don't be too demure because then you're a frigid
>
> librarian
>
>>type, and so on. Similar to the codes men struggle with, or at least
>>that seems to be accurate from the reading I've been doing - those
>>restrictive masculine and feminine "codes" society imposes.
>
>
> Yes, it's so hard for women who want to have it all to
> make those things work because "society" tells them.
> For example, I want lots of money but to not work very
> hard because "society" creates those expectations in me.
>

She obvioulsy does not understand how the
captalist system works:

-----------------Begin quote
  In other words any social development that
would stimulate consumerism, bring work under
technical control and further the penetration of
daily life, would become favoured by the centres
of capitalist power, while any development that
would enhance people's ability to take command
of their social existence would become
correspondingly discouraged.

  Now this is not an easy program for the
capitalist state. To simply crush people's
ability to take command of their lives is not in
itself beyond the state's capacity. If carried
out overtly, however, it would result in a
fascism that would undermine the state's need to
legitimate itself and, more fundamentally, be
incompatible with the late capitalist
accumulation process itself. Although by no
means an unthinkable alternative, an
authoritarian course of state action would
render people incapable of either consuming or
working according to advanced capitalist
standards. What is suitable for a banana
republic does not wear quite so well at the
metropolitan centre of world capitalism. But on
the other hand, the simple fostering of advanced
capitalist relations entails cultivation of both
reason and desire - the very two elements that,
in the right combination, could react to create
the conditions for the overcoming of capitalism
itself, with its systematic unreason and
stunting of human possibilities.

  [Kovel, J., (1980). *The American Mental
Health Industry.* in Ingleby, J. D., *Critical
Psychiatry: The Politics of Mental Health*
Harmondswprth, Egland. Penguin. [p 77.]]
--------------End quote

That is the whole point of the system; to induce
a desire for the goodies of capitalism (which
are largely unnecessary) while making it
virtually impossible to achieve those goals. If
the goals could be achieved for the vast
majority the system would go into decline once
those goals had been achieved.

Hence, for very many people, the goals *can* be
achieved but only modestly and over a very long
period of time. In other words the capoityalist
system keep the poor worker on the hook in
return for the occassional little reward while
the fat cats rake it in. It is just lkike a
classical adictive system of inducements the
most obvious example of which is gambling. As
the behaviourist would explain it is a variable
time variable reward system.

D.


> There are plenty of men around who aren't threatened whatsoever
> by strong women.  But then again, those guys are not going
> to be swimming through moats to rescue "liberated" women.
>
>
>>Excuse me, I've got to go have a smoke before I jump off that bridge.
>>;-)
>
>
> Forget the smokes and bridges.  Let's look instead at the single
> struggling mothers with bastard babies, aging spinsters on prozac,
> women who are stressed from working a full time job and
> managing a household, dealing with their weight problems
> from eating at restaurants, etc.
>
> It's not society or men who force fed these women their problems,
> it's all the choices feminists insisted upon women having.
> You got the vote and you couldn't make up your mind.
> It's as simple as that.  You "struggle" with your own
> indecisiveness.
>
> Pardon me, I'm now thirsty because I didn't get up to grab
> a drink because I was writing to you.  That's YOUR fault!
>
> regards,
> Mark Sobolewski
>


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