From: hheagy@delphi.com
Subject: Re: Seeing Eye's bad dogs
On 1997-04-16 pdonahue@texas.net said to hheagy@delphi.com
 pd>First of all let me deal with the matter of Peggie Eliot.  are
you
 pd>aware that earlier this year Allen Harris, and Dr. Fred
Schroader
 pd>traveled to Hawaii to meat with the governor of that state
 pd>concerning the quarantine issue.  Note that neither of them use
 pd>guide dogs, yet they went on our behalf to fight for right to
 pd>freedom of travel with our guide dogs.  I guess what you are
saying
 pd>is that only guide dog users should be allowed to speak to
guide
 pd>dog users and that under no circumstances should cane users do
it
 pd>for us.
That is not what I am saying at all.  There is a very big
difference between a cane user traveling to Hawaii to speak on
our behalf and a person who has no working knowledge of dog guide
use telling dog guide users how to handle their dogs.  If Peggy
Elliott was so qualified then how come many users walked out of
the meeting upon her comments about shortening training classes
and such.  Most dog guide schools have a first timers class
length of 4 weeks with anywhere from one to two weeks shorter
time for re-trains depending on the school.  On the other hand, a
stay at a federation center can last anywhere from 6 to 9 months.
Chances are that a person is not going to have 9 full term dog
guides in their lifetime.  So if you go on class length alone, a
stay at a center is more disruptive than a class at a dog guide
school.
?A person doesn't need to use a dog to know that dog guide users
have the same rights to access to any public place that the
sighted people have or to know that the Hawaii quarantine is
totally unreasonable.  However, I think a person does need to use
a dog or have a constant surrounding of a dog guide user to know
the workings of
a dog guide.  Peter Lang's wife has been a dog guide user for
years and he himself has been an instructor for longer than that.
He met her while she was a student at Seeing Eye.  So someone
like him has an expertise to speak to the issue of dog guide use.
On the other hand someone who is not the least bit interested in
dog guides is not qualified to say how long the classes should be
or how you should cross the street with your dog.  Maybe the
classes could be shorter maybe not; but Mrs. Elliott is not
qualified to speak to that issue at this point.
 pd>As far as I know there are no Federationists on the Hawaiian
 pd>Islands who use guide dogs so how else could the job have been
done.
How do you know?  Just because they may not have been at a
convention doesn't mean they aren't there.  It is my
understanding that the school in Hawaii closed down several years
ago and people on the islands go to Australia to get their dogs.
But just because they haven't come to the convention with their
dogs doesn't mean we don't have federationists using dog guides
in Hawaii who may be working on the quarantine.  After all, it is
precisely because of the quarantine that they can't bring their
dogs to conventions because if they do they have to be
quarantined upon their return.
 pd>For years we've said that the problems we've
 pd>seen at our national conventionsstem directly from the quallity
of
 pd>training given to guide dog users by the various schools.  So
if
 pd>this is whare the fault lies lets fix the problem before it
ever
 pd>shows up at future conventions.
There may be some schools better than others, but I doubt that
any one of them have advocated parking dogs inside the hotel
lobby or on stair landings; nor have they advocated dog guide
users barreling into people and trying to break into lines Etc.
Besides, the same White Cane law that allows us the privilege of
bringing our dogs into public places also says that the owner is
responsible for any damages done by that dog.  So whether or not
the schools are good or bad the law is there and is very clear on
both the accessibility and the responsibility of dog guides and
their users.  I'm not saying that training methods can't be
improved, but the responsibility is clearly with the owners and
that's only common sense.  A parent is responsible for damages
done by their children, and so it is with dog guide users.
Harvey
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