From: "Rich" 

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   None of the public reports I have seen have suggested abobe asked for =
money for themselves.  Instead they state that Abobe wanted Microsoft to =
charge extra to Microsoft customers for the ability to produce PDF files =
so as to not hurt adobe charging $449 for a copy of acrobat.  See =
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MICROSOFT_ADOBE_SPAT?SITE=3DAP&SEC=
TION=3DHOME&TEMPLATE=3DDEFAULT&CTIME=3D2006-06-02-17-43-17.

Rich

  "Mark"  wrote in message =
news:4480d9c5$1{at}w3.nls.net...
  From a strictly layman's perspective, it sounds like Adobe said you =
can't do=20
  that and MS said yes we can. Then someone else (in authority) agreed =
with=20
  Adobe, so Adobe said aha, now give us money and MS said, uh, no =
thanks,=20
  .pdf, we don't need no stinkin' .pdf, and we'll just shove .pdf out =
the door=20
  instead.

  Then Adobe went ashen as they saw the viability of .pdf going forward=20
  threatened. 


  "Rich Gauszka"  wrote in message=20
  news:4480d085{at}w3.nls.net...
  > So with my current dislike for most things MS/Adobe and while I'd =
welcome=20
  > a deathmatch my initial response is I don't care
  >
  > =
http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_to_Drop_PDF_Support_in_Office/1=
149284222
  >
  > Amid threats of a lawsuit from Adobe, Microsoft acknowledged Friday =
that=20
  > it would remove support for saving files in PDF from Office 2007, as =
well=20
  > as dropping its own rival format XPS from the productivity suite and =

  > Windows Vista.
  >
  > The changes follow a breakdown of talks between the two technology =
giants=20
  > after Microsoft announced last year it would include native PDF =
publishing=20
  > with the release of Office 2007. The feature has long been a top =
request=20
  > from customers, the company said at the time, and other office =
suites have=20
  > the capability.
  >
  > But Adobe was unhappy with the move and a dispute has been brewing =
for=20
  > four months, Microsoft's lead counsel Brad Smith said Friday. =
Although PDF=20
  > claims to be an open format and is integrated into OpenOffice and =
Apple's=20
  > Mac OS X operating system, Adobe apparently sees Office 2007 as a =
real=20
  > threat to its business.
  >
  > Adobe wants Microsoft to charge for the feature, which the Redmond =
company=20
  > has refused to do. Smith said Adobe threatened to file an antitrust =
suit=20
  > in Europe, and his company was preparing for that eventuality. Now,=20
  > however, Microsoft says it will make the feature available through a =

  > downloadable add-on.
  >
  > "PDF is usually viewed as an open standard and there are other =
office=20
  > suites out there that already support PDF output. I don't see us =
providing=20
  > functionality that's any different from what others are doing," =
remarked=20
  > Microsoft's Office Open XML format lead Brian Jones in a blog =
posting.
  >
  > "This really is one of those cases where you just have to shake your =
head.=20
  > Adobe got a lot of goodwill with customers, particularly in =
government=20
  > circles, for making PDF available as an open standard. It's amazing =
that=20
  > they would go back on the openness pledge."
  >
  > In addition, Microsoft will drop support for its own fixed-layout =
format=20
  > known as XPS from Office and offer an XPS-free version of Windows =
Vista to=20
  > OEMs that request it. Windows Vista includes XPS -- formerly =
code-named=20
  > "Metro" -- as part of the Windows Presentation Foundation. The =
company=20
  > will host a session on using Vista as a document platform at TechEd =
2006=20
  > in Boston on June 12.
  >
  > However, it is unlikely many computer makers will opt for the =
XPS-free=20
  > option. European computer makers have balked at Windows XP N, a =
special=20
  > version of Microsoft's flagship operating system that strips out =
Windows=20
  > Media Player. When running a standard Vista install, Office 2007 =
will have=20
  > the "Save as XPS" feature.
  >
  > Some analysts have remained skeptical that Microsoft's side is the =
full=20
  > story. Adobe has yet to comment on the matter, and may not publicly =
if it=20
  > indeed intends to file a lawsuit.
  >
  > "I had no idea that Adobe carried such swath it could force =
Microsoft to=20
  > raise Office prices," chided Jupiter Research senior analyst Joe =
Wilcox.=20
  > He noted that Microsoft is clearly using the media to push its =
position=20
  > that if it cannot use PDF freely, then Adobe's format must not be =
open.
  >
  > "Whatever occurred in private between the two companies, Microsoft =
is=20
  > aggressively taking a very public PR position. I see Microsoft as =
trying=20
  > to make this a debate about formats and the openness of PDF. =
Microsoft=20
  > claims new Office formats are open, but some =
governments--Massachusetts,=20
  > for example--disagree."
  >
  > Already, industry groups have come out in support of Microsoft, and=20
  > customers have expressed their dismay at Adobe's actions.
  >
  > "If recent reports are accurate, Adobe is turning PDF from an open=20
  > standard into a double standard. It seems their new position is that =
the=20
  > PDF standard is now open for some to implement, but not all," =
commented=20
  > Jonathan Zuck, President of the Association for Competitive =
Technology=20
  > (ACT).
  >
  > "The Commonwealth did pick PDF as an open standard. Microsoft could =
gain=20
  > favorable position with Massachusetts or other governments by =
launching a=20
  > FUD campaign that portrays Adobe as exacting a double standard with=20
  > respect to PDF openness," added Jupiter's Wilcox.
  >
  > Microsoft's Jones said he hopes Adobe realizes it has made a mistake =
and,=20
  > "that they probably shouldn't try to sue people for using an open =
file=20
  > format." Microsoft has pledged not to go after anyone that =
implements its=20
  > Office Open XML formats, which are currently being certified as a =
standard=20
  > by Ecma.
  >
  > "If you're like me and think this is just a bad thing all around, =
you=20
  > should let them know," Jones wrote. With no lawsuit filed just yet, =
Adobe=20
  > could still give into the public pressure and forge an agreement =
with=20
  > Microsoft.
  >
  > "The worst thing Adobe could do is not respond," said
Wilcox. "The =
company=20
  > needs to tell its side of the story, before Microsoft's version is =
seared=20
  > in the public consciousness."
  >
  >=20


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   None of
the public reports =
I have seen=20
have suggested abobe asked for money for themselves.  Instead they
= state=20
that Abobe wanted Microsoft to charge extra to Microsoft =
customers for the=20
ability to produce PDF files so as to not hurt adobe charging $449
= for a=20
copy of acrobat.  See http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MICROSOFT_ADOBE_SPAT?SITE=3D=
AP&SECTION=3DHOME&TEMPLATE=3DDEFAULT&CTIME=3D2006-06-02-17-43=
-17">http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MICROSOFT_ADOBE_SPAT?SITE=3DA=
P&SECTION=3DHOME&TEMPLATE=3DDEFAULT&CTIME=3D2006-06-02-17-43-=
17.
 
Rich
 

  "Mark" <nomail{at}hotmail.com>=20">mailto:nomail{at}hotmail.com">nomail{at}hotmail.com>=20
  wrote in message news:4480d9c5$1{at}w3.nls.net...From=20
  a strictly layman's perspective, it sounds like Adobe said you can't =
do=20
  that and MS said yes we can. Then someone else (in authority) =
agreed with=20
  Adobe, so Adobe said aha, now give us money and MS said, uh, no =
thanks,=20
  .pdf, we don't need no stinkin' .pdf, and we'll just shove .pdf =
out the=20
  door instead.Then Adobe went ashen as they saw the =
viability of=20
  .pdf going forward threatened. <me I don't care either, other =
than the=20
  less .pdf out there the better from my end-user point of=20
  view>"Rich Gauszka" <gauszka{at}hotmail.com>">mailto:gauszka{at}hotmail.com">gauszka{at}hotmail.com>
wrote =
in message=20
  news:4480d085{at}w3.nls.net...>=
=20
  So with my current dislike for most things MS/Adobe and while I'd =
welcome=20
  > a deathmatch my initial response is I don't =
care>> http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_to_Drop_PDF_Support_in_=
Office/1149284222">http://www.betanews.com/article/Microsoft_to_Drop_PDF_=
Support_in_Office/1149284222>>=20
  Amid threats of a lawsuit from Adobe, Microsoft acknowledged Friday =
that=20
  > it would remove support for saving files in PDF from Office =
2007, as=20
  well > as dropping its own rival format XPS from the =
productivity suite=20
  and > Windows Vista.>>
The changes follow a =
breakdown of=20
  talks between the two technology giants > after Microsoft =
announced=20
  last year it would include native PDF publishing > with the =
release of=20
  Office 2007. The feature has long been a top request > from =
customers,=20
  the company said at the time, and other office suites have > =
the=20
  capability.>> But Adobe was unhappy
with the move and a =
dispute=20
  has been brewing for > four months, Microsoft's lead counsel =
Brad Smith=20
  said Friday. Although PDF > claims to be an open format and is=20
  integrated into OpenOffice and Apple's > Mac OS X operating =
system,=20
  Adobe apparently sees Office 2007 as a real > threat to its=20
  business.>> Adobe wants Microsoft to
charge for the =
feature,=20
  which the Redmond company > has refused to do. Smith said Adobe =

  threatened to file an antitrust suit > in Europe, and his =
company was=20
  preparing for that eventuality. Now, > however, Microsoft says =
it will=20
  make the feature available through a > downloadable=20
  add-on.>> "PDF is usually viewed
as an open standard and =
there=20
  are other office > suites out there that already support PDF =
output. I=20
  don't see us providing > functionality that's any different =
from what=20
  others are doing," remarked > Microsoft's Office Open XML =
format lead=20
  Brian Jones in a blog posting.>>
"This really is one of =
those=20
  cases where you just have to shake your head. > Adobe got a lot =
of=20
  goodwill with customers, particularly in government > circles, =
for=20
  making PDF available as an open standard. It's amazing that > =
they=20
  would go back on the openness
pledge.">> In addition, =
Microsoft=20
  will drop support for its own fixed-layout format > known as =
XPS from=20
  Office and offer an XPS-free version of Windows Vista to > OEMs =
that=20
  request it. Windows Vista includes XPS -- formerly code-named > =
"Metro"=20
  -- as part of the Windows Presentation Foundation. The company =
> will=20
  host a session on using Vista as a document platform at TechEd 2006 =
>=20
  in Boston on June 12.>> However, it is
unlikely many =
computer=20
  makers will opt for the XPS-free > option. European computer =
makers=20
  have balked at Windows XP N, a special > version of Microsoft's =

  flagship operating system that strips out Windows > Media =
Player. When=20
  running a standard Vista install, Office 2007 will have > the =
"Save as=20
  XPS" feature.>> Some analysts have
remained skeptical =
that=20
  Microsoft's side is the full > story. Adobe has yet to comment =
on the=20
  matter, and may not publicly if it > indeed intends to file a=20
  lawsuit.>> "I had no idea that
Adobe carried such swath =
it could=20
  force Microsoft to > raise Office prices," chided Jupiter =
Research=20
  senior analyst Joe Wilcox. > He noted that Microsoft is clearly =
using=20
  the media to push its position > that if it cannot use PDF =
freely, then=20
  Adobe's format must not be open.>>
"Whatever occurred in =
private=20
  between the two companies, Microsoft is > aggressively taking a =
very=20
  public PR position. I see Microsoft as trying > to make this a =
debate=20
  about formats and the openness of PDF. Microsoft > claims new =
Office=20
  formats are open, but some governments--Massachusetts, > for=20
  example--disagree.">> Already,
industry groups have come =
out in=20
  support of Microsoft, and > customers have expressed their =
dismay at=20
  Adobe's actions.>> "If recent
reports are accurate, =
Adobe is=20
  turning PDF from an open > standard into a double standard. It =
seems=20
  their new position is that the > PDF standard is now open for =
some to=20
  implement, but not all," commented > Jonathan Zuck,
President =
of the=20
  Association for Competitive Technology >
(ACT).>> =
"The=20
  Commonwealth did pick PDF as an open standard. Microsoft could gain =
>=20
  favorable position with Massachusetts or other governments by =
launching a=20
  > FUD campaign that portrays Adobe as exacting a double =
standard with=20
  > respect to PDF openness," added Jupiter's =
Wilcox.>>=20
  Microsoft's Jones said he hopes Adobe realizes it has made a mistake =
and,=20
  > "that they probably shouldn't try to sue people
for using an =
open=20
  file > format." Microsoft has pledged not to go
after anyone =
that=20
  implements its > Office Open XML formats, which are currently =
being=20
  certified as a standard > by
Ecma.>> "If you're =
like me=20
  and think this is just a bad thing all around, you > should let =
them=20
  know," Jones wrote. With no lawsuit filed just yet, Adobe > =
could still=20
  give into the public pressure and forge an agreement with >=20
  Microsoft.>> "The worst thing
Adobe could do is not =
respond,"=20
  said Wilcox. "The company > needs to tell its side of the =
story, before=20
  Microsoft's version is seared > in the public=20
  consciousness.">>


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