From: "Geo" 

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Rich,

I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things are =
the way they are now.  I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the = mistakes
by supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look at how
much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow the
level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules better and we are better off now.

Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past mistakes =
have created a situation that the computer must guess. Break the damn =
websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types for text =
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and
enforce some rules.

Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, we =
don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer =
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.

Geo.
  "Rich"  wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
     Two different issues.  IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types.  It's not easy to fix.  IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either.  Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong.  Because they do types can't be enforced.

     Text and Unicode is first a false distinction.  It's all text.  In =
the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text = as
this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load.  Even that misses = the
complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct = and
incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings = which
may be distinct from any of the ANSI ones.  It is complicated = because for
many of the ANSI encodings including the one used in the = U.S. and Western
Europe, anything could be valid.  Because of this it is = not always
possible to make a distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a = file could
validly be either.  UTF-8 is restrictive so it is easy to = tell if
something is valid UTF-8.  That could still be a problem as = valid UTF-8
could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some heuristics are = applied.  For
example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is probably = UTF-16 while if
you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D might be a = valid Unicode
character.  I didn't look.

  Rich

    "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...
    That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how
    computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a =
unique
    solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how notepad =
guesses
    between text and unicode.

    Geo.

    "Antti Kurenniemi"  wrote
in message
    news:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    > It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip here
    > and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
    clue
    > about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of them =
here,
    > that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge manuals =
for just
    > configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it was =
possible
    > to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
    least
    > you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer 
    >
    >
    > Antti Kurenniemi
    >
    > "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...
    > I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess"
at things. =
We used
    > to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
    now..
    >
    > Geo.
    >   "Rich"  wrote in message news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...
    >      You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off =
the
    shelf
    > adapter that is plugged in.  The PC could go back to the dark ages =
too as
    > this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
    >
    >   Rich
    >
    >
    >


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Rich,
 
I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
excuses for why things are the way they are now.  I just think
it's = wrong=20
to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong way = to do=20
things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it = didn't=20
allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced
the = rules=20
better and we are better off now.
 
Same thing should happen with all the =
other cases=20
where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer must = guess. Break=20
the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types = for text=20
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and=20
enforce some rules.
 
Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated all=20
by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our = computer=20
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero = doesn't=20
mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.
 
Geo.

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
     Two different =
issues.  IE has=20
  to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that return this =
content=20
  often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, types.  It's not =
easy to=20
  fix.  IE had to do this because netscape didn't enforce types and =
to be=20
  compatible IE couldn't either.  Because the types aren't enforced =
lots of=20
  servers still do this wrong.  Because they do types can't be=20
  enforced.
   
     Text
and Unicode is =
first a false=20
  distinction.  It's all text.  In the case of Notepad, you =
mean=20
  UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the =
distinction that=20
  Notepad makes on load.  Even that misses the complexity as what =
people=20
  call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct and incompatible ANSI =
encodings and=20
  is often one of many OEM encodings which may be distinct from any of =
the ANSI=20
  ones.  It is complicated because for many of the ANSI encodings =
including=20
  the one used in the U.S. and Western Europe, anything could be =
valid. =20
  Because of this it is not always possible to make a distinction =
between UTF-16=20
  and ANSI as a file could validly be either.  UTF-8 is restrictive =
so it=20
  is easy to tell if something is valid UTF-8.  That could still be =
a=20
  problem as valid UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some =
heuristics=20
  are applied.  For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is =

  probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D =
might be a=20
  valid Unicode character.  I didn't look.
   
  Rich
   
  
    "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
    wrote in message news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...That's=20
    not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
howcomputers=20
    today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have a=20
    uniquesolution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or =
how=20
    notepad guessesbetween text and =
unicode.Geo."Antti=20
    Kurenniemi" <NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=">mailto:NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
>=20
    wrote in messagenews:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
    It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this dip =

    here> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped and=20
    have noclue> about where they should go...
I'll just make =
a neat=20
    row of them here,> that'll do it". I remember a lot of =
hardware=20
    having huge manuals for just> configuring the stupid dip =
switches and=20
    whatnots, and that it was possible> to fry things by =
misconfiguring=20
    them. No thanks to that - nowadays, atleast>
you don't =
have to=20
    get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
    <g>>>>
Antti Kurenniemi>> =
"Geo"=20
    <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote =
in=20
    message news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
    I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We=20
    used> to have a saying "computers don't make
mistakes" but =
all that=20
    changednow..>>
Geo.>   "Rich" =
<{at}>=20
    wrote in message news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>     =20
    You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
    theshelf> adapter that is plugged
in.  The PC could =
go back=20
    to the dark ages too as> this is how things used to be when =
the PC=20
    first came to be.>>  =20
    =
Rich>>>

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