From: "Geo" 

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It's really simple to do, you just put a "strict" meter on IE so
that = users can set it to very strict, pretty strict, somewhat strict,
fuckit = make it work. And then set pretty strict as the default. Now let
the = websites explain to users they have to set it to the fuckit
setting.=20

Geo.
  "Rich"  wrote in message news:449993de{at}w3.nls.net...
     Users can't see why something doesn't work but do see that it =
doesn't.  If you want clients to enforce the types returned by the = sittes
you should start by getting sites to return correct info.  You = could do
this on your own.  Write or grab a crawler and start crawling = the
internet.  Send email to the webmasters for any sites with mistakes. =
 Good luck.

  Rich

    "Geo"  wrote in message
news:449764b9{at}w3.nls.net...
    Rich,

    I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things =
are the way they are now.  I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the =
mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look
at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow
the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules better and we are better off now.

    Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past =
mistakes have created a situation that the computer must guess. Break = the
damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types = for
text files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be =
compatible and enforce some rules.

    Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, =
we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer =
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.

    Geo.
      "Rich"  wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
         Two different issues.  IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types.  It's not easy to fix.  IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either.  Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong.  Because they do types can't be enforced.

         Text and Unicode is first a false distinction.  It's all text.  =
In the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI = text
as this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load.  Even that = misses
the complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 = distinct
and incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM = encodings
which may be distinct from any of the ANSI ones.  It is = complicated
because for many of the ANSI encodings including the one = used in the U.S.
and Western Europe, anything could be valid.  Because = of this it is not
always possible to make a distinction between UTF-16 = and ANSI as a file
could validly be either.  UTF-8 is restrictive so it = is easy to tell if
something is valid UTF-8.  That could still be a = problem as valid UTF-8
could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some heuristics = are applied.  For
example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is = probably UTF-16 while if
you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D = might be a valid Unicode
character.  I didn't look.

      Rich

        "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...
        That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I =
meant how
        computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't =
have a unique
        solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how =
notepad guesses
        between text and unicode.

        Geo.

        "Antti Kurenniemi"  wrote in =
message
        news:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
        > It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch =
this dip here
        > and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
        clue
        > about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of =
them here,
        > that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge =
manuals for just
        > configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it =
was possible
        > to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
        least
        > you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer =

        >
        >
        > Antti Kurenniemi
        >
        > "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...
        > I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We used
        > to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but
all that =
changed
        now..
        >
        > Geo.
        >   "Rich"  wrote in message
news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...
        >      You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any =
off the
        shelf
        > adapter that is plugged in.  The PC could go back to the dark =
ages too as
        > this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
        >
        >   Rich
        >
        >
        >


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It's really simple to do, you just put =
a "strict"=20
meter on IE so that users can set it to very strict, pretty strict, = somewhat=20
strict, fuckit make it work. And then set pretty strict as the =

default. Now let the websites explain to users they have to set it to = the fuckit=20
setting. 
 
Geo.

  "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:449993de{at}w3.nls.net...
     Users
can't see why =
something=20
  doesn't work but do see that it doesn't.  If you want clients to =
enforce=20
  the types returned by the sittes you should start by getting sites to =
return=20
  correct info.  You could do this on your own.  Write or grab =
a=20
  crawler and start crawling the internet.  Send email to the =
webmasters=20
  for any sites with mistakes.  Good luck.
   
  Rich
   
  

    "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
    wrote in message news:449764b9{at}w3.nls.net...
    Rich,
     
    I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
    excuses for why things are the way they are now.  I just think =
it's=20
    wrong to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the =
wrong=20
    way to do things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. =
That's=20
    because it didn't allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x =
did, it=20
    enforced the rules better and we are better off now.
     
    Same thing should happen with all =
the other=20
    cases where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer =
must=20
    guess. Break the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce =
strict=20
    file types for text files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST =
guess to=20
    be compatible and enforce some rules.
     
    Things have a habit of
getting real =
complicated=20
    all by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip =
on our=20
    computer environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN =
divide by=20
    zero doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the =
end of=20
    time.
     
    Geo.
    

      "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
         Two
different =
issues.  IE=20
      has to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that =
return this=20
      content often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, =
types.  It's=20
      not easy to fix.  IE had to do this because netscape didn't =
enforce=20
      types and to be compatible IE couldn't either.  Because the =
types=20
      aren't enforced lots of servers still do this wrong.  Because =
they do=20
      types can't be enforced.
       
        
Text and Unicode is =
first a=20
      false distinction.  It's all text.  In the case of =
Notepad, you=20
      mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the=20
      distinction that Notepad makes on load.  Even that misses the =

      complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct =
and=20
      incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings =
which=20
      may be distinct from any of the ANSI ones.  It is complicated =
because=20
      for many of the ANSI encodings including the one used in the U.S. =
and=20
      Western Europe, anything could be valid.  Because of this it =
is not=20
      always possible to make a distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a =
file=20
      could validly be either.  UTF-8 is restrictive so it is easy =
to tell=20
      if something is valid UTF-8.  That could still be a problem =
as valid=20
      UTF-8 could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some heuristics are=20
      applied.  For example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is =

      probably UTF-16 while if you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though =
U+0A0D might=20
      be a valid Unicode character.  I didn't look.
       
      Rich
       
      
        "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
        wrote in message news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...That's=20
        not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant=20
        howcomputers today guess at the answer when the problem =
doesn't have=20
        a uniquesolution. Example would be how IE guesses file types =
or how=20
        notepad guessesbetween text and =
unicode.Geo."Antti=20
        Kurenniemi" <NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=">mailto:NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
>=20
        wrote in messagenews:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
        It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip=20
        here> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped=20
        and have noclue> about where they should
go... I'll =
just make=20
        a neat row of them here,> that'll do it". I
remember a =
lot of=20
        hardware having huge manuals for just> configuring the =
stupid dip=20
        switches and whatnots, and that it was possible> to fry =
things by=20
        misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - nowadays, =
atleast>=20
        you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
       
<g>>>>
Antti =
Kurenniemi>> "Geo"=20
        <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
=
wrote in=20
        message news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
        I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We=20
        used> to have a saying "computers don't make
mistakes" =
but all=20
        that changednow..>>
Geo.>   =
"Rich"=20
        <{at}> wrote in message news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>     =20
        You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
        theshelf> adapter that is plugged
in.  The PC =
could go=20
        back to the dark ages too as> this is how things used to =
be when=20
        the PC first came to
be.>>  =20
        =
Rich>>>

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