From: "Rich" 

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   Users can't see why something doesn't work but do see that it =
doesn't.  If you want clients to enforce the types returned by the = sittes
you should start by getting sites to return correct info.  You = could do
this on your own.  Write or grab a crawler and start crawling = the
internet.  Send email to the webmasters for any sites with mistakes. =
 Good luck.

Rich

  "Geo"  wrote in message
news:449764b9{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich,

  I didn't say there weren't a dozen different excuses for why things =
are the way they are now.  I just think it's wrong to perpetuate the =
mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong way to do things. = Look
at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because it didn't = allow
the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules better and we are better off now.

  Same thing should happen with all the other cases where past mistakes =
have created a situation that the computer must guess. Break the damn =
websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file types for text =
files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be compatible = and
enforce some rules.

  Things have a habit of getting real complicated all by themselves, we =
don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on our computer =
environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN divide by zero =
doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the end of =
time.

  Geo.
    "Rich"  wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
       Two different issues.  IE has to apply heuristics to file types =
because the servers that return this content often return bogus, both =
incorrect or invalid, types.  It's not easy to fix.  IE had to do this =
because netscape didn't enforce types and to be compatible IE couldn't =
either.  Because the types aren't enforced lots of servers still do this =
wrong.  Because they do types can't be enforced.

       Text and Unicode is first a false distinction.  It's all text.  =
In the case of Notepad, you mean UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI = text
as this is the distinction that Notepad makes on load.  Even that = misses
the complexity as what people call ANSI is actually any of 14 = distinct
and incompatible ANSI encodings and is often one of many OEM = encodings
which may be distinct from any of the ANSI ones.  It is = complicated
because for many of the ANSI encodings including the one = used in the U.S.
and Western Europe, anything could be valid.  Because = of this it is not
always possible to make a distinction between UTF-16 = and ANSI as a file
could validly be either.  UTF-8 is restrictive so it = is easy to tell if
something is valid UTF-8.  That could still be a = problem as valid UTF-8
could be valid ANSI too.  Instead some heuristics = are applied.  For
example if you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is = probably UTF-16 while if
you see 0D 0A it may be ANSI though U+0A0D = might be a valid Unicode
character.  I didn't look.

    Rich

      "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...
      That's not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant =
how
      computers today guess at the answer when the problem doesn't have =
a unique
      solution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or how =
notepad guesses
      between text and unicode.

      Geo.

      "Antti Kurenniemi" 
wrote in message
      news:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      > It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip here
      > and that there, and then those jumpers that I just dropped and =
have no
      clue
      > about where they should go... I'll just make a neat row of them =
here,
      > that'll do it". I remember a lot of hardware having huge manuals =
for just
      > configuring the stupid dip switches and whatnots, and that it =
was possible
      > to fry things by misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - =
nowadays, at
      least
      > you don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer =

      >
      >
      > Antti Kurenniemi
      >
      > "Geo"  wrote in message =
news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...
      > I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at =
things. We used
      > to have a saying "computers don't make mistakes" but all that =
changed
      now..
      >
      > Geo.
      >   "Rich"  wrote in message
news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...
      >      You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any =
off the
      shelf
      > adapter that is plugged in.  The PC could go back to the dark =
ages too as
      > this is how things used to be when the PC first came to be.
      >
      >   Rich
      >
      >
      >


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   Users
can't see why =
something doesn't=20
work but do see that it doesn't.  If you want clients to enforce =
the types=20
returned by the sittes you should start by getting sites to return = correct=20
info.  You could do this on your own.  Write or grab a
crawler = and=20
start crawling the internet.  Send email to the webmasters for any
= sites=20
with mistakes.  Good luck.
 
Rich
 

  "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
wrote=20
  in message news:449764b9{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich,
   
  I didn't say there weren't a dozen =
different=20
  excuses for why things are the way they are now.  I just think =
it's wrong=20
  to perpetuate the mistakes by supporting what is obviously the wrong =
way to do=20
  things. Look at how much lame hardware NT cleaned up. That's because =
it didn't=20
  allow the level of "cheating" that DOS and Win9x did, it enforced the =
rules=20
  better and we are better off now.
   
  Same thing should happen
with all the =
other cases=20
  where past mistakes have created a situation that the computer must =
guess.=20
  Break the damn websites that aren't working right, enforce strict file =
types=20
  for text files. Stop accepting the excuses that it MUST guess to be =
compatible=20
  and enforce some rules.
   
  Things have a habit of getting real =
complicated=20
  all by themselves, we don't need to be helping confusion get a grip on =
our=20
  computer environments. Just because some programmer decided he CAN =
divide by=20
  zero doesn't mean every programmer should now support that till the =
end of=20
  time.
   
  Geo.
  

    "Rich" <{at}> wrote in message news:449720d7{at}w3.nls.net...
       Two different =
issues.  IE has=20
    to apply heuristics to file types because the servers that return =
this=20
    content often return bogus, both incorrect or invalid, types.  =
It's not=20
    easy to fix.  IE had to do this because netscape didn't enforce =
types=20
    and to be compatible IE couldn't either.  Because the types =
aren't=20
    enforced lots of servers still do this wrong.  Because they do =
types=20
    can't be enforced.
     
       Text
and Unicode is =
first a false=20
    distinction.  It's all text.  In the case of Notepad, you =
mean=20
    UTF-16 text vs. UTF-8 text vs. ANSI text as this is the =
distinction=20
    that Notepad makes on load.  Even that misses the complexity as =
what=20
    people call ANSI is actually any of 14 distinct and incompatible =
ANSI=20
    encodings and is often one of many OEM encodings which may be =
distinct from=20
    any of the ANSI ones.  It is complicated because for many of =
the ANSI=20
    encodings including the one used in the U.S. and Western Europe, =
anything=20
    could be valid.  Because of this it is not always possible to =
make a=20
    distinction between UTF-16 and ANSI as a file could validly be =
either. =20
    UTF-8 is restrictive so it is easy to tell if something is valid=20
    UTF-8.  That could still be a problem as valid UTF-8 could be =
valid=20
    ANSI too.  Instead some heuristics are applied.  For =
example if=20
    you see 0D 00 0A 00 then the file is probably UTF-16 while if you =
see 0D 0A=20
    it may be ANSI though U+0A0D might be a valid Unicode =
character.  I=20
    didn't look.
     
    Rich
     
    
      "Geo" <georger{at}nls.net>=20">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>=20
      wrote in message news:449444fd$2{at}w3.nls.net...That's=20
      not what I meant when I said computers today guess. I meant=20
      howcomputers today guess at the answer when the problem =
doesn't have a=20
      uniquesolution. Example would be how IE guesses file types or =
how=20
      notepad guessesbetween text and =
unicode.Geo."Antti=20
      Kurenniemi" <NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=">mailto:NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti{at}SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
>=20
      wrote in messagenews:449392b8$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
      It was equally bad having people guess things. "I'll switch this =
dip=20
      here> and that there, and then those jumpers that I just =
dropped=20
      and have noclue> about where they should
go... I'll =
just make a=20
      neat row of them here,> that'll do it". I
remember a lot of =

      hardware having huge manuals for just> configuring the =
stupid dip=20
      switches and whatnots, and that it was possible> to fry =
things by=20
      misconfiguring them. No thanks to that - nowadays, =
atleast> you=20
      don't have to get your hands dirty to break your computer=20
     
<g>>>>
Antti Kurenniemi>> =
"Geo"=20
      <georger{at}nls.net>">mailto:georger{at}nls.net">georger{at}nls.net>
=
wrote in=20
      message news:44938e6a$2{at}w3.nls.net...=
>=20
      I kind of prefer the days when computers didn't "guess" at things. =
We=20
      used> to have a saying "computers don't make
mistakes" but =
all that=20
      changednow..>>
Geo.>   "Rich" =
<{at}>=20
      wrote in message news:4493558b$1{at}w3.nls.net...=
>     =20
      You don't expect a mainframe to automatically detect any off=20
      theshelf> adapter that is plugged
in.  The PC =
could go=20
      back to the dark ages too as> this is how things used to be =
when=20
      the PC first came to
be.>>  =20
      =
Rich>>>

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