bluesmama wrote:
> That was just way too long to respond to, though I'd like to. When
you
> weren't being condescending, you made some points I'd like to think
and
> read about more. The whole giggling and snickering thing, though,
that
> just creeps me out. I hate it when men giggle, and I realize that's
> probably sexist, but I just do. Trust me, when I'm reading what
you're
> writing, I can tell when you're pleased enough with yourself and your
> cleverness to chuckle in self-congratulation. I don't need it pointed
> out.
>
> The image portrays an unarmed, prone woman halting a fight between
two
> armed, standing men? Those Greco-Roman women must have been tough
> bitches, I guess. I can see why a woman armed only with some kind of
> hair ornament would "have power over armed, fighting men".
>
> No, I'm not shocked by a male-biased view. I've said in other threads
> that bias is inescapable. I just found it interesting that female
bias
> was pointed out, whereas male bias was just - ignored. Or assumed to
be
> correct, I don't know.
>
> So there isn't as big a men's studies section as there is a women's
> studies section? Guess women have been more talkative. Write some
> books. But if you want women to read them, make them as balanced as
> possible. Don't want women to read them? Well then I guess it doesn't
> matter if you examine your biases or not.
>
> But then again, maybe removal of the bias isn't possible, at all, for
> men or women. Not because taking it away would "emasculate" or
(what's
> the feminine equivalent?) but just because people naturally write or
> speak filtered through their bias. Maybe you don't want any more
female
> voices in the debate, whether or not they might agree with you, or
help
> to promote your agenda. Sometimes you have to argue a little before
you
> can get to any common ground. Is common ground what you're looking
for?
> Or is higher ground your aim?

Human nature being what it is, I think that it is quite unrealistic
to expect modern western women to go very far towards giving up the
advantages they now possess. Actually, getting much cooperation on
these things is like trying to take meat away from a hammerhead shark.
So, men will have to simply do it own their own.
Men need to have the same absolute veto right over procreation that
women now enjoy. So they need to develop an effective male birth
control method and  use it. No discussion required.
Men need to get into the habit of demanding DNA confirmation of
paternity instead of bothering to listen what a woman might have to say
about it. No dialoging neccessary.
Men need to do a better job making sure young men have a more
realistic understanding of the divorce industry before they marry. No
permission need be sought.
Reforming the educational gulag will be tougher. However, there
might be more support from women on this one. Even extremely feministic
women tend to want a good education for their OWN sons, even if they
want to cripple the rest.


>
> And you're way off as far as understanding my comment about societal
> change needing to come from men and women. How you turned it into yet
> another jab at feminism I don't know, but I congratulate your
> single-mindedness. If society is comprised of men and women, societal
> change will have to come from men and women, that's just common
sense.
> So alienating women just seems - well - counter-productive to me.
>
> No, I'm not a man, and I don't claim to think like one, understand
the
> way a man thinks, or be able to feel the pain of misandrist attacks.
> All I can do is transfer it to my own experience and try to
empathise.
> Just like you can't understand the societal pressures on women.
> Sometimes it looks to me like men have it pretty easy in some ways -
> sometimes I think it must be hellishly hard to be a man, especially
> now, with gender roles so fluid and contradictory.
>
> But I love my husband. The man is awesome. And even if I have to sift
> through all kinds of feminist cracks and snippy comebacks and
personal
> attacks, I'm going to keep reading, and replying if I'm in the mood,
> because I want to understand more about the pressures he faces as a
man
> in contemporary American society.
>
> So thanks for your comments. I'll have to re-read and check the links
> out.
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