From: "Rich" 

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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   You are being rediculous.  Does your smartphone even support a large =
external disk?  A terrabyte external disk and exclosure is much larger =
than a phone and requires an external power supply.  That is assuming it =
will even work.  Again, even with USB 2.0 on a phone it doesn't make it = a
PC.

   Your reference to mirror bit may be interesting but it is off topic.  =
A phone doesn't have the RAM of a PC and it does make a difference.

   We weren't talking about your music habits.  I believe you believe =
your phone is a PC replacement when you and your family get rid of your =
PCs.  I'm not talking 5 years from now.  I think we can both agree that =
the power of small form factor devices like phones will continue to =
increase.  Phones won't become PCs but phones will likely be able to be =
docked in a manner so that the docked combination is PC like.

Rich

  "Ad"  wrote in message =
news:46554f1a{at}w3.nls.net...
  Rich wrote:
  >    Even if you have USB 2.0 on a phone it does not make it a PC.
  >

  Indeed not however it opens up the terrabytes of storage option =
without=20
  increasing the size of the platform while also increasing the range &=20
  scope of any add-ons.

  e.g. imagine a phone with say linux on board & a USB2.0 port. Heck you =

  could even plug in a digital tv usb device.

  >    Solid state is faster than disk not RAM.
  > =20

  Indeed but RAM costs in terms of energy use & thus battery life though =

  people are looking at how to combine the best of both e.g.

  http://www.spansion.com/products/MirrorBit_Eclipse.html

  & RAM which only turns on as you need it.


  >    Of course you and your family carry phones not PCs.  So what?  =
Again,=20
  > I believe you believe your phone is a PC replacement when you and =
your=20
  > family get rid of your PCs.  If you keep your PCs then you are=20
  > demonstrating that the phone is not sufficient.
  > =20

  Right now. However things are pointing towards the phone. e.g. wrt=20
  digital music I have a mp3 player in my phone & on my PC. Ditto my =
son.=20
  In both case the amout of music we listen to is vastly greater on the=20
  phone than on the PC. 5 years ago  simply was not able to listen to=20
  music on a phone & thus all my mp3 listening was on my PC or I had to=20
  make a CD by turning the mp3'es into wavs & burning a cd-r.

  My calendar is now basically entirely based round my phone where my pc =

  based calendar is used as a backup & a network asset (i.e. to allow=20
  others to see my schedule or to add events for me). I then sync (via a =

  USB port) in a few seconds et voila.

  Ditto my notes/todo etc.

  i.e. my phone is now my PIM.

  I have friends who have the larger screen pda style mobiles who also=20
  basically have their phones as their primary PIM + email.

  Little by little, function by function much as the PC rose. Yes Web=20
  browsing is still a pain though doable (e.g. I tend to check train =
times=20
  on my mobile).

  Remember when the idea of running say a serious multi-user database on =
a=20
  PC was greeted with hoots of laughter by most?

  Once the screen/display issue is dealt with then you're basically =
going=20
  to see all the std office/productivity apps move to the phone inc web=20
  browsing, mail, PIM, office stuff (wp, spreadsheets, personal database =
etc).

  Got an LCD tv? Got a smartphone? Got a bluetooth keyboard with =
trackpad=20
  or bluetooth mouse? got an external USB2.0 storage device...=20
  Sorted.....why do you have that big noisy PC....?

  Adam


  > Rich
  > =20
  >=20
  >     "Ad"      > wrote in =
message
  >     news:46542c21{at}w3.nls.net...
  >     Rich wrote:
  >      >    Smartphones do not have anywhere near the I/O perf and
  >     capacity of
  >      > PCs even those few years old.
  >=20
  >     (A) IO perf
  >=20
  >     Why fit something like :
  >=20
  >     "The ARM CortexTM-A8 processor is the first applications =
processor
  >     based
  >     on the ARMv7 architecture and is the highest performance, most
  >     power-efficient processor ever developed by ARM. With the =
ability to
  >     scale in speed from 600MHz to greater than 1GHz, the Cortex-A8
  >     processor
  >     can meet the requirements for power-optimized mobile devices =
needing
  >     operation in less than 300mW; and performance-optimized consumer
  >     applications requiring 2000 Dhrystone MIPS. "
  >=20
  >     if you're not going to have the IO required to feed the cpu?
  >=20
  >     RAM etc is cheap & the distances in a mobile phone are smaller.
  >=20
  >     (B) Capacity?
  >=20
  >     Mobile phones & digicams are driving solid state storage not the =
PC &
  >     it's the PC which is moving towards the mobile phone & not the =
other
  >     way
  >     around on that.
  >=20
  >     e.g.
  >=20
  >     =
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/02/flash_future_for_notebooks/
  >=20
  >     ""More than half of new notebooks to use Flash drives by Q4 =
2009,"
  >     shouts the headline on market watcher iSuppli's latest missive, =
before
  >     admitting soon after that, actually, it's counting not just =
solid-state
  >     drives but also regular HDDs with integrated Flash cache and =
separate
  >     caches like Intel's Turbo Memory module.
  >=20
  >     Still, it shows that non-volatile storage chips are going play =
an
  >     increasingly important part in laptop design going forward from =
the
  >     handful - if that - of machines available today with built-in =
Flash."
  >=20
  >     or:
  >=20
  >     =
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/14/sansdisk_flash_drive_for_laptops/=

  >=20
  >     "SanDisk has begun offering a 32GB solid-state drive to notebook =
makers
  >     less than a week after it was claimed Apple's rumoured =
sub-notebook
  >     will
  >     only contain Flash storage."
  >=20
  >     Gosh apparently even a recent Microsoft operating system even =
supports
  >     solid state storage.
  >=20
  >=20
  >      >  Sure I can add a memory card to my phone
  >      > but I could add slow memory to PCs from years ago.
  >=20
  >     My my a MS person saying solid state =3D slow? So why are the =
vista
  >     people
  >     so keen to boot from it?
  >=20
  >=20
  >      > My PC of several
  >      > years back had a terrabyte of storage.
  >=20
  >     Well done you. I take it this was in a mobile computer. If not =
then
  >     gosh
  >     many smartphones come with USB2.0 & I can add 1 TB easily using =
that
  >     should I wish to.
  >=20
  >=20
  >      > Phones are nowhere close.
  >=20
  >     With USB2.0 they are exactly where the PC is.
  >=20
  >      > RAM
  >      > of a phone, not flash storage, is low and usually in the tens =
or if
  >      > lucky the hundreds of megabytes not gigabytes.
  >=20
  >     &? Not every OS needs gigabytes of RAM. I accept that Vista does =
but
  >     heck not every PC has gigabytes of RAM.
  >=20
  >     In fact none of mine have over 1 Gb.
  >=20
  >      > Display size of phones
  >      > is tiny.
  >=20
  >     Indeed. This is the problem I have been referring to but it is =
soluble
  >     especially if docked in some fashion.
  >=20
  >      > Human interface input limited though because perf is not an
  >      > issue you can use a bluetooth PC keyboard with some phones =
such
  >     as mine.
  >      >=20
  >      >    All in all, a phone makes a crappy PC.
  >=20
  >     A PC makes a crappy small device. Tablets haven't taken off, nor =
have
  >     micro/sub laptops.
  >=20
  >     As the PC has found it's much easier to occupy the low ground & =
then
  >     grow than to occupy the high ground and then try to scale down.
  >=20
  >       I very much like my
  >      > smartphone and it is good at what it does.  It doesn't do =
what a
  >     PC does
  >      > nor is it as good as a PC for many of the things the phone =
can do
  >     like
  >      > email and web access.
  >      >=20
  >=20
  >     Shrug. The only thing stopping that is display size. My 3G
  >     connection is
  >     at teh moment slightly faster than my broadband though I am =
about to
  >     upgrade my broadband speed so....
  >=20
  >=20
  >      >    I'll believe you believe your nonsense when you get rid of =
all
  >     the
  >      > PCs you and your family have at home and use only your =
phones.
  >      >=20
  >=20
  >     I know which I have with me habitually & which my family members =
have
  >     with them habitually. My elder son uses his PC periodically but =
take
  >     his
  >     mobile phone off him & there'd be war.
  >=20
  >     I know a number of people who via bluetooth keyboards use their =
phones
  >     for all note-taking etc in meetings. Fewer & fewer are bringing =
laptops
  >     unless they're doing a powerpoint style presentation.
  >=20
  >=20
  >     It's down to display size. Once they have that figured out then =
many
  >     PC'es will be replaced with smartphones.
  >=20
  >     Adam
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   You are being =
rediculous.  Does=20
your smartphone even support a large external disk?  A terrabyte =
external=20
disk and exclosure is much larger than a phone and requires an external = power=20
supply.  That is assuming it will even work.  Again, even
with = USB 2.0=20
on a phone it doesn't make it a PC.
 
   Your
reference to mirror =
bit may be=20
interesting but it is off topic.  A phone doesn't have the RAM of
a = PC and=20
it does make a difference.
 
   We
weren't talking about =
your music=20
habits.  I believe you believe your phone is a PC replacement when
= you and=20
your family get rid of your PCs.  I'm not talking 5 years from =
now.  I=20
think we can both agree that the power of small form factor devices like = phones=20
will continue to increase.  Phones won't become PCs but phones
will = likely=20
be able to be docked in a manner so that the docked combination is PC=20
like.
 
Rich
 

  "Ad" <Dobbin{at}theStablesC=">mailto:Dobbin{at}theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">Dobbin{at}theStablesC=
loseToTheAirport.com>=20
  wrote in message news:46554f1a{at}w3.nls.net...Ri=
ch=20
  wrote:>    Even if you have
USB 2.0 on a phone =
it does=20
  not make it a PC.>Indeed not however
it opens up the =
terrabytes=20
  of storage option without increasing the size of the platform =
while also=20
  increasing the range & scope of any
add-ons.e.g. =
imagine a=20
  phone with say linux on board & a USB2.0 port. Heck you could =
even=20
  plug in a digital tv usb
device.>    Solid =
state is=20
  faster than disk not RAM.> 
Indeed but RAM costs =
in terms=20
  of energy use & thus battery life though people are looking at =
how to=20
  combine the best of both e.g.http://w" target="new">http://w=">http://www.spansion.com/products/MirrorBit_Eclipse.html">http://w=
ww.spansion.com/products/MirrorBit_Eclipse.html&=20
  RAM which only turns on as you need =
it.>    Of=20
  course you and your family carry phones not PCs.  So what?  =
Again,=20
  > I believe you believe your phone is a PC replacement when you =
and=20
  your > family get rid of your PCs.  If you keep
your PCs =
then you=20
  are > demonstrating that the phone is not =
sufficient.> =20
  Right now. However things are pointing towards the
phone. e.g. =
wrt=20
  digital music I have a mp3 player in my phone & on my PC. =
Ditto my=20
  son. In both case the amout of music we listen to is vastly =
greater on the=20
  phone than on the PC. 5 years ago  simply was not able to =
listen to=20
  music on a phone & thus all my mp3 listening was on my PC or I =
had to=20
  make a CD by turning the mp3'es into wavs & burning a =
cd-r.My=20
  calendar is now basically entirely based round my phone where my pc =
based=20
  calendar is used as a backup & a network asset (i.e. to allow =
others=20
  to see my schedule or to add events for me). I then sync (via a =
USB port)=20
  in a few seconds et voila.Ditto my notes/todo
etc.i.e. =
my=20
  phone is now my PIM.I have friends who have the larger screen =
pda=20
  style mobiles who also basically have their phones as their =
primary PIM +=20
  email.Little by little, function by function much as the PC =
rose. Yes=20
  Web browsing is still a pain though doable (e.g. I tend to check =
train=20
  times on my mobile).Remember when the idea
of running say =
a=20
  serious multi-user database on a PC was greeted with hoots of =
laughter by=20
  most?Once the screen/display issue is dealt with then you're =
basically=20
  going to see all the std office/productivity apps move to the =
phone inc=20
  web browsing, mail, PIM, office stuff (wp, spreadsheets, personal =
database=20
  etc).Got an LCD tv? Got a smartphone? Got a bluetooth
keyboard =
with=20
  trackpad or bluetooth mouse? got an external USB2.0 storage =
device...=20
  Sorted.....why do you have that big noisy=20
  PC....?Adam>
Rich>  >=20
  >     "Ad"
<Dobbin{at}theStablesC=">mailto:Dobbin{at}theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">Dobbin{at}theStablesC=
loseToTheAirport.com>    =20
  <mailto:Dobbin{at}theS=">mailto:Dobbin{at}theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">mailto:Dobbin{at}theS=
tablesCloseToTheAirport.com>>=20
  wrote in message>     news:46542c21{at}w3.nls.net...>=
    =20
  Rich wrote:>      =
>   =20
  Smartphones do not have anywhere near the I/O perf=20
  and>     capacity=20
  of>     
> PCs even those few years =

  old.>
>     (A) IO
perf>=20
  >     Why fit
something like :>=20
  >     "The ARM
CortexTM-A8 processor is the =
first=20
  applications processor>    =20
  based>     on the
ARMv7 architecture and is =
the=20
  highest performance,
most>     =
power-efficient=20
  processor ever developed by ARM. With the ability=20
  to>     scale in
speed from 600MHz to =
greater than=20
  1GHz, the Cortex-A8>    =20
  processor>     can
meet the requirements =
for=20
  power-optimized mobile devices
needing>     =

  operation in less than 300mW; and performance-optimized=20
  consumer>    
applications requiring 2000 =
Dhrystone=20
  MIPS. ">
>     if you're not
going =
to have=20
  the IO required to feed the cpu?> =
>     RAM=20
  etc is cheap & the distances in a mobile phone are =
smaller.>=20
  >     (B)
Capacity?>=20
  >     Mobile phones
& digicams are =
driving=20
  solid state storage not the PC
&>     =
it's the=20
  PC which is moving towards the mobile phone & not the=20
  other>     =
way>    =20
  around on that.>
>    
e.g.>=20
  >     http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/02/flash_future_for_notebook=
s/">http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/02/flash_future_for_notebooks/=
A>>=20
  >    
""More than half of new notebooks to =
use=20
  Flash drives by Q4
2009,">    
shouts the =
headline=20
  on market watcher iSuppli's latest missive,=20
  before>    
admitting soon after that, =
actually,=20
  it's counting not just
solid-state>     =
drives but=20
  also regular HDDs with integrated Flash cache and=20
  separate>     caches
like Intel's Turbo =
Memory=20
  module.>
>     Still, it shows
that=20
  non-volatile storage chips are going play =
an>    =20
  increasingly important part in laptop design going forward from=20
  the>     handful -
if that - of machines =
available=20
  today with built-in Flash.">
>    =20
  or:>
>     http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/14/sansdisk_flash_drive_for_=
laptops/">http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/03/14/sansdisk_flash_drive_fo=
r_laptops/>=20
  >     "SanDisk
has begun offering a 32GB=20
  solid-state drive to notebook
makers>     =
less than=20
  a week after it was claimed Apple's rumoured=20
  sub-notebook>    =20
  will>     only contain Flash =
storage.">=20
  >     Gosh
apparently even a recent =
Microsoft=20
  operating system even
supports>     solid =
state=20
  storage.> >
>      =
> =20
  Sure I can add a memory card to my =
phone>     =20
  > but I could add slow memory to PCs from years ago.>=20
  >     My my a MS
person saying solid state =
=3D slow?=20
  So why are the vista>    =20
  people>     so keen
to boot from =
it?>=20
  >
>     
> My PC of=20
 
several>     
> years back had a =
terrabyte=20
  of storage.>
>     Well done you. I
=
take it=20
  this was in a mobile computer. If not =
then>    =20
  gosh>     many
smartphones come with USB2.0 =
& I=20
  can add 1 TB easily using
that>     should =
I wish=20
  to.> >
>     
> =
Phones are=20
  nowhere close.>
>     With USB2.0 =
they are=20
  exactly where the PC is.> =
>      >=20
  RAM>     
> of a phone, not flash =
storage,=20
  is low and usually in the tens or =
if>     =20
  > lucky the hundreds of megabytes not gigabytes.>=20
  >     &? Not
every OS needs gigabytes =
of RAM. I=20
  accept that Vista does
but>     heck not =
every PC=20
  has gigabytes of RAM.>
>     In fact =
none of=20
  mine have over 1 Gb.>
>      =
>=20
  Display size of
phones>     
> is=20
  tiny.>
>     Indeed. This is
the =
problem I=20
  have been referring to but it is =
soluble>    =20
  especially if docked in some fashion.>=20
  >     
> Human interface input =
limited=20
  though because perf is not
an>      =
> issue=20
  you can use a bluetooth PC keyboard with some phones=20
  such>     as=20
  mine.>     
>=20
  >     
>    All in =
all, a=20
  phone makes a crappy PC.>
>     A PC =
makes a=20
  crappy small device. Tablets haven't taken off, nor=20
  have>     micro/sub
laptops.>=20
  >     As the PC has
found it's much easier =
to=20
  occupy the low ground &
then>     grow =
than to=20
  occupy the high ground and then try to scale down.>=20
 
>      
I very much like=20
  my>     
> smartphone and it is =
good at=20
  what it does.  It doesn't do what =
a>     PC=20
  does>     
> nor is it as good as a =
PC for=20
  many of the things the phone can
do>    =20
  like>     
> email and web=20
 
access.>     
> >=20
  >     Shrug. The
only thing stopping that =
is=20
  display size. My
3G>     connection=20
  is>     at teh
moment slightly faster than =
my=20
  broadband though I am about
to>     upgrade =
my=20
  broadband speed so....> > =
>     =20
  >    I'll believe you believe your
nonsense when you =
get rid=20
  of all>    =20
  the>     
> PCs you and your family =
have at=20
  home and use only your
phones.>     
=
>=20
  >
>     I know which I
have with me=20
  habitually & which my family members =
have>    =20
  with them habitually. My elder son uses his PC periodically but=20
  take>     =
his>    =20
  mobile phone off him & there'd be war.>=20
  >     I know a
number of people who via =
bluetooth=20
  keyboards use their
phones>     for all =
note-taking=20
  etc in meetings. Fewer & fewer are bringing=20
  laptops>     unless
they're doing a =
powerpoint=20
  style presentation.> >
>     =
It's=20
  down to display size. Once they have that figured out then=20
  many>     PC'es will
be replaced with=20
  smartphones.>
>    =20
Adam

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