JC>  DM> With regard to your second question, the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) 
ad
JC>  DM> a pretty good working communist economy going until the invading 
hoard
JC>  DM> from Europe  destroyed it.
JC> 
JC>  It had it's severe internal problems, however, that had little to do 
ith
JC>  the Europeans. (And even then it depends on which Europeans you're 
talking
JC>  about.) Ever read a book by Richard White called: "The Middle Ground:
JC>  Indians, Empires, and Republics in the Great Lakes Region, 1650-1815"? 
It'
JC>  way too complex a time period and the issues involved to simply say it 
was
JC>  "destroyed by the invading hordes from Europe."
 
Jim, Never heard of the book, but I'll look for it.  
Have you seen any literature on what life was like prior to the coming of the 
europeans, (traders, explorers, etc.)?  Paul Wallace's book takes the issue 
from the founding of the Five Nations (Haudenosaunee) Confederacy 
approximately 1250 A.D. forward.  Remember, european influences (diseases, 
nd
trade/value economics, etc.) began around the turn of the century (1500) and 
spread through the native nations like wildfire.  Imagine the damage done by 
disease alone in the 100-130 year span that The Middle Ground doesn't cover.  
 
In fact, if I recall correctly, anyone group who showed an interest in 
oining
the Confederacy and living by their rules, was welcome to join, as the 
Tuscarora did approximately 1600.  
 
The time span you are referring to though was a time of radical change 
throughout much of the Eastern US, so how could the Native Peoples have 
avoided being caught up in it, especially when their lands were the basis for 
most of the conflict?
 
JC>  DM> However, no economy is going to work in as large a scale as is now 
n
JC>  DM> place  here and globally, except for a true communistic economy 
here
JC>  DM> all people work together for the common good.
JC>  
JC>  And that virtually confines communism to a small scale 
population-wise).
JC>  And even then, in the cases of most communes throughout history, it has
JC>  proven to break down as human nature creeps in.
True.  In most cases I see, any large scale form of civilization tends to 
outgrow it's ability to prosper in about 600 years or so.  Look back at the 
Romans, the Ancient Egyptins, the Mayan, Incan, and even the Chinese 
dynasties.
 
In smaller groupings however, secular types of civilizations tend to grow and 
according the the food availability.  The Hopi and Puebloan peoples have 
ived
their way for over 700 years with little outside influence.  
 
Cooperation seems to be the key, and greed and arrogance are the welds which 
seem to fuse the locks and keep the keys from working.  
 
JC>  The only problem is... What does the "Great Law of Peace" say about the
JC>  nations _outside_ the Confederation and those nation's geographical
JC>  territory? What does the "Great Law of Peace" have to say about the 
enemie
JC>  of the Confederation? What provisions were made in the Confederation to 
ho
JC>  it together? Why did two tribes decide to break away? All very, very
JC>  complex. And White's book only covers one hundred sixty-five years and a
JC>  relatively small area of the U.S.
As I said before, anyone willing to live within the laws set down by The 
Peacemaker (Deganawedah), and live peacefully with the other members of the 
Confederation were welcome to join as the Tuscarora did.  
 
The "enemies of the Confederation" then faced the entire confederation's 
warriors, not just those of a member nation.  
 
I believe Deganawedah used the example of breaking one arrow to show the 
relative strength of one nation, then tied five arrows together and dared any 
of the assembled leaders to try and break the "unified" arrows.  This showed 
that one alone is not as strong as many together.  
Ben Franklin used this same example in trying to sway the Continental 
ongress
to adopt a "Confederation" style of goevernment.  
 
Also, the time period you are talking about is at the beginning and most 
active time of interference by the europeans.  Constant battles between the 
English and the French over control of the area seperated the people of the 
region, and in the late 1700's the battle between England and the Colonials 
took over after the French influence had weakened.  
 
Take care.
 
Dennis 
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