From: "Geo" 

"John Beamish"  wrote in message
news:op.tepiopkpm6tn4t{at}dellblack.wlfdle.phub.net.cable.rogers.com...
> "You can't do that" is the solution when the proposed solution is
> inappropriate to the problem.

Ok, I wasn't cutting mainframes, I was just pointing out there was a vast
market where the PC fit very nicely and I believe the same market exists
for end user programmable consumer devices.


> the value to the end user is directly proportional to the cost benefit.
> What is the value to the user of a solution that is open to viruses vs one
> that, by its very nature, is completely immune.

Hold it. If you are trying to convince me that a mainframe can't be rooted
by a user initiated virus you are nuts. Mainframes are just as exposed as
any PC. In fact if the PC never existed and everyone was using dumb
terminals today to access the internet and run video and such, the virus
problem would be just as serious as it is today.

I used to run mini systems, I reported just as many bugs and security
issues in those systems as in any PC. True users don't run as admin on a
mini or MF system but they don't run as admin on vista either and that
ain't going to make the virus problem go away.

Trust me on this, it is just as easy to root a MF or mini as it is a PC. I
had the guy from NEC try to claim otherwise and I crashed their whole
system via a modem connection while I was talking to them on the phone just
to prove how full of it they were.

> As for the hardware people want to buy ... they want to buy a Cadillac,
> they buy a pimped Chevy Nova -- it, too, is heavily customized.  Sure, you
> can tinker with the Nova or you can get a better ride, environment, better
> everything by going to the professionals.

Ok, but I'm saying a Cadillac or a Nova that allows the end user to
customize it with a different feature set (different radio, different
lights, different wheels, different exhaust, etc) is far more desirable
than a locked down unmodifiable product that deactivates itself at the
first sign of tinkering.

> the number of stock Toyotas, GMs, Fords, etc., etc., on the roads show
> that people talk about tinkering but

Ok, so you've never seen a modified car on the roads, never seen
aftermarket fins or tail lights or running boards or exhaust or wheels?


> I know life from mainframes (not the *really* big ones, my largest was a
> CDC6600) to PCs in a LAN or peer-to-peer and lots of stuff inbetween.
> Look at Barkto/Canopus and then look at world of computer users.  We are a
> microscopic portion of users, an elite.

No we aren't, go buy any high end system today and it comes with LED's in
the power supply, windows into the case, meters on the front, etc. All
stuff that was "elite" a couple years ago. Why is that? Must be a
market for it huh?

You saw what happened with the development of polaroid cameras (under
control of one company) compared to what's happened with the development of
digital cameras (under control of a whole bunch of OEMs)? How many more
features there are? Well when you open up the feature set to be modified by
anyone instead of just the OEM you go an order of magnitude beyond that
difference. It's a huge advantage and we are only at the very beginning of
that now with some of the consumer devices that run on linux. This is going
to go way WAY beyond what we are seeing today.

Also as the copyright cartel gets more restrictive and controlling over the
hardware manufacturers, aftermarket mods are going to be the only way to
allow the end users to get the feature set they want without ending up in
court.

Geo.

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