----------
In article , "August Pamplona"
 wrote:


> In news:oqednUqVL9tK1G3cRVn-vA{at}comcast.com,
> Deborah Terreson  typed:
>> ----------
>> In article , "August
Pamplona"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In news:1106251758.087555.316520{at}z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com,
>>> ls  typed:
>>>> Deborah Terreson wrote:
>>>>> ----------
>>>>> In article ,
>>>>> Skinner1{at}hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> This seems to be a rather un-provocative style for
conversation
>>>>>> so I will try another one. I find it interesting
seeing the wide
>>>>>> variety of responses.... now that most of the
flamers have been
>>>>>> weeded out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the next in the question series:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is the biggest lie you have been told in your life?
>>>>>
>>>>> A doctor I went two two years ago told me.."Your
health is my
>>>>> responsibility!" - and the fucking cunt DIDN'T
take a work history
>>>>> nor inform me of the nature of the chemicals I was
exposed to and I
>>>>> suffered benzene poisoning as a result of being given
anaesthesia.
>>>>> Had I been treated as if I was intelligent, I would
have followed a
>>>>> detoxification protocol that would have ameliorated
75-80% of the
>>>
>>>     Detoxification protocol?
>>
>> Uh huh. When you get a serious solvent exposure, you CAN burn it out
>> of your body quite quickly (housepainters do it by drinking, that is
>> why drunken painters are almost an unspoken proverb) by taking in
>
>     You can? Is this some sort of therapy with evidence of efficacy or
> is it just painter lore?

It works. That's the problem. The only thing to cut the 'muzzy' feeling
after a day of painting is to drink. Unfortunately, the alcohol combines
with the solvents and as they are going through the liver they cause
horrible damage. Hence I take the milk thistle. The paint industry has
dodged a huge liability bullet in that the bulk of painters who've died from
the liver and kidney problems that vex the trade were for the most part ALSO
alcoholics. The blame then falls to the drinking, and NOT the chemical
exposure. If you study the MSDS's of most of the manufacturers, you'll see
that they have been reformulating for years, to try to quietly change the
toxicity. Today most people do not even realize that 'water clean-up' latex
paint is in actuality petrochemical based  - latex is now synthesized from
oil, not rubber trees. This is how they have increased the durability of
latexes and why it has come down in price since the early 90's.

> Ethanol can actually be helpful with methanol
> poisoning, supposedly. It acts by saturating alcohol dehydrogenase (is
> that the right enzyme?) and thus decreasing the rate of formaldehyde
> (which is what does the worst damage in cases of methanol exposure)
> formation to something a bit more manageable. I can't see how the
> consumption of methanol would make the body "burn" anything. Could you
> elucidate a possible mechanism?

When alcohol is metabolized, the liver starts by removing the water which
leaves acetone, which is a solvent that is passed quickly out of the body -
got nail polish remover? That's acetone - a world class solvent. If you look
at the production process for making mesitylene, acetone is one of the key
ingredients, and it binds to it and is passed out.
>
>> large quantities of silymarin - found in milk thistle tea - which has
>
>     Silymarin does supposedly have a hepatoprotective effect according
> to some German studies, IIRC.
>
>> protective properties that sheild the liver from fatty accumulations
>> related to alcohol consumption (amongst other things), and a few
>> bottles of Everclear (190 proof alcohol) and gallons of orange juice.
>> If you are NOT a big beer or booze drinker (I've seen too many
>> painter friends die from liver and kidney failure from the solvents
>> and alcohol so I know better than to drink much) and your liver is
>> otherwise healthy, you can expedite these substances out that way -
>> BUT - you have to know to do it as soon as an exposure occurs. If you
>> wait and the oxidization begins, the chemical chain reaction starts
>> and it's too late.
>>
>> It's a Nantucket Sleighride from Hell, then. Mine lasted 9 months -
>> complete with amenorrhea from the estrogen supression due to the
>> benzene.
>
>     Benzene does this? I've found references on Medline hormonal
> influences of benzene but none that even had an abstract that I could
> read from the comfort of my own home (besides being unavailable, they
> seemed to be in French or Japanese so I don't even know what they were
> all about --but it was a very quick search).

Benzene has been shown to cause ovaries to shrink in size and of course
reduce estrogen in animals. The data you USED to be able to find quite
easily on OSHA pages, but as the Bush administration has slackened up on the
environmental laws and allowed the chemical industry to get away with more
and more, the information is disappearing from online.

The medical industry generally does not cast too hard a critical eye on the
chemical industry, and the substances used. Only in the most egregious cases
of toxicity will you find large amounts of research data. - and ironically
MOST of this data will come out of OSHA, NIOSH or the chemical industry
itself. The medical industry operates on the premise that since it is
available in the marketplace, the substance is therefore 'safe' within
acceptable limits. MOST doctors have very little clue about these
substances, so common and widespread is the perception that they do not have
any cumulative effects.

I have MSDS's from paint manufacturers themselves from 10 years ago that
have far more detailed breakdowns of the chemicals, their PEL's and their
reactivity levels - now the things offer a bare minimum. It's all about
reducing liability. If the public doesn't KNOW what is dangerous and WHY, it
cannot sue.

The chemical manufacturers know what is coming and already the cosmetics
industry (NEVER wear makeup or use anything with a glycol in it) which uses
MANY of the same bases is starting to change, ONLY because of the European
Union regulations. Do a news search on L'Oreal and Revlon - they are
starting to remove the tetragens, carcinogens and mutagens from their
products. Ironic that the E.U now has better environmental laws than the
U.S.A and that NAFTA is forcing business to adhere to stricter regulations.

>
>>>
>>>>> after effects. Since then I have lost all of my
ability to control
>>>>> my emotions (as is a hallmark of such chemical exposure) and am
>>>>> perpetually aggressive, intemperate and have NO faith
in medicine
>>>>> or doctors and will NEVER go to one again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd LOVE to beat that cunt into the dirt for her laziness. If I
>>>>> ever see her in town here, I WILL.
>>>>>
>>>>> Women SHOULD NOT be doctors, they are too unprofessional.
>>>>
>>>> But men doctors do the exact same thing, not always asking for a
>>>> complete history.  If you knew you were exposed to chemicals at work
>>>> you should have told the doctor. It's a shared responsibly, your
>>>> doctor should have asked but you should have also told her.
>>>
>>>     I have to say that using benzene as an anesthetic sounds kind of
>>> questionable.
>>
>> The anaesthesia was a flouromethyl ethyl ether. The benzene came out
>> of my fat, oxidized out of the very lipophilic (fat attracted) 1,3,5
>> trimethylbenzene (mesitylene)
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesitylene> that I have been exposed to
>> over 22 years as an industrial painter and tradeswoman.
>
>     1,3,5trimethylbenzene --> benzene from reacting with flouromethyl
> ethyl ether? Does that happen?

Yes. The ethyl ethers are highly miscible with trimethylbenzene and reactive
with the fluorine. The problem is, that the mesitylene is always releasing
benzene - painters generally are acknowled to have mild forms of benzene
poisoning and this is why there are such strong contraindications to
exposure to the halides (amongst others). The halides have reactive polar
bonds - a positive charge on the carbon which makes them volatile.

> Ethers tend to be very highly reactive,
> IIRC, and could possibly act as an oxidicer (it would probably form some
> sort of peroxide and it would be downhill from there, I'm guessing).
> That's probably what would be happening here (maybe I should have
> studied some more organic chemistry after my sophomore year). Anyway, it
> sounds like it would suck.

Yes. The flourine is one of the organohalogens - chlorine and bromine are as
well. All of them are oxidizers and can react with benzene. In the past,
after I'd go swimming in a pool, I'd get a distinct 'stoned' feeling as the
day would progress. It was awful and by 1990, I'd stopped going into pools
or hot tubs. I didn't know the exact whys then, but I knew it was the
chlorine that was the culprit.

Deb.
>>>
>>>     There's always the local witch doctor.
>>
>> Would probably be safer.
>
>     It depends.
>
>>
>> Deb.
>
> August Pamplona
> --
> The waterfall in Java is not wet.
> - omegazero2003 on m.f.w.
>
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