JS>> Long time no see!

 CJ>     Yep, been a while since I've been in UFO.
 CJ>     It's also been a while since I've seen messages in here that
 CJ> weren't directly from FIDO boards.  Rachel, are we having problems
 CJ> with the gate?

 CJ>>> "AXE TO GRIND, HAVE AN.  A cliche' and therefore to be avoided
 CJ>>> and the more to be avoided because, like so many cliche's, it
 CJ>>> doesn't have a clear meaning.
 CJ>>

 JS>> That depends. It may be clearer to some than others.
 CJ>
 CJ>>> "In so far as it has a meaning, it implies a hidden personal
 CJ>>> interest in a seemingly disinterested proposal.  But just how
 CJ>>> it came to have even this much meaning is somewhat a mystery."
 CJ>
 SS>>> Why hidden do you suppose? I have never thought there was the
 SS>>> slightest suggestion of hidden about it. You can publish your
 SS>>> agenda and hand it out at the meeting -- there's nothing inherently
 SS>>> hidden about either an axe or an agenda.
 CJ>
 CJ>>     All I can say is that the Evans' definition also fits the
 CJ>> contexts where I've seen this cliche'.  There haven't been any
 CJ>> other messages in here for a while--the Inet gate to this echo seems
 CJ>> to work by fits and starts at times--but it should be interesting
 CJ>> to see what others have to say on this.

 JS>> I've been following this thread for the while I've been lurking.
 CJ>
 SS>>> I think that's odd (and I agree with you about them). I think
 SS>>> the meaning is entirely clear. "He hasn't time to sharpen his
 SS>>> neighbor's axe because he has his own axe to grind" is what I
 SS>>> understand to be the meaning of the phrase.

 JS>> I too find that meaning the easiest to relate to.
 CJ>
 CJ>>> That could fit into the wording "He has his own axe to
grind."
 CJ>>> But it doesn't fit at all into the other phrasing where one
 CJ>>> encounters this cliche' is "She has an axe to grind with
 CJ>>> that."  And the contexts where I've enountered both forms
 CJ>>> showed that the meaning was that the person was *not* standing
 CJ>>> aside.

 JS>> I tend to disqualify the later, as it is somewhat removed from the
 JS>> original cliche', and may even be misinterpreted as meaning
"She has a
 JS>> chip on her shoulder."

 CJ>     _The Reader's Encyclopedia_, ed. William Rose Benet, Thomas Y
 CJ> Crowell, 1948:
 CJ>     "AXE.  _He has an axe to grind_.  Some selfish motive in the
 CJ> background; some personal interest to answer.

"He has an axe to grind" seems to have a somewhat different meaning than,
"He has his own axe to grind."

 CJ> Franklin tells the story
 CJ> of a man who wanted to grind his axe, but had no one to turn the
 CJ> grindstone.  Going to the yard where he saw young Franklin, he asked
 CJ> the boy to show him how the machine worked, and kept praising him till
 CJ> his axe was ground, and then laughed at him for his pains."
 CJ>     The Evanses' _Dictionary of American Usage_ I quoted from above
 CJ> differs about the derivation, but the two reference works I've found
 CJ> that give the meaning of the cliche' both concur on the meaning.

That sounds like Franklin was searching for a hidden meaning. ...Much like
we are right now! :-)

 SS>>> I see the meaning "She has a personal interest"
as well though I
 SS>>> don't see anything that implies secrecy about it. You would have a
 SS>>> personal interest in keeping your axe sharp.
 CJ>
 CJ>>     On thinking about this some more, there must be a connection
 CJ>> that because the axe isn't ready to use yet, you don't have it with
 CJ>> you and you grind it at home while waiting for an opportunity.
 CJ>
 SS>>> Have you seen Scott Adams newsletter? People are thrilled to share
 SS>>> what they hear. Some lovely examples of mangled metaphor: "She's

 CJ>
 CJ>>     That would make a great character tag, along the lines of
 CJ>> the Mrs. Spooner that gave her name to "spoonerism."
 CJ>>     Another nice stylistic technique for a writer or poet is
 CJ>> to take a cliche' and by changing the wording slightly but
 CJ>> expressing the same thought, refresh the meaning into newness.

 JS>> "The ship plows the sea."

 JS>> As the great, white ship plows the sea, so shall you reap the wild
 JS>> wind
 JS>> (and other meaningless jiberish)

 CJ>     Here's an example of what I'm thinking of.  "A peony for your
 CJ> thoughts."  "A ten-penny nail for your thoughts." 
"A penny for your
 CJ> pots."  Etc.
 CJ>     Or how about this for a strip-tease dancer:  "She had an ass
 CJ> to grind."

You may go sit in the corner now, Curtis. :-)

Jack

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