BA> Replying to a message of Bob Klahn to Bob Ackley:

 BA>>> You consider destruction of property and intentional
 BA>>> sabotage of equipment to be 'negotiating?'  That sort of
 BA>>> thing was quite common when the CWA went out on strike
 BA>>> against the Bell System.

 BK>>  You claim all unions engage in sabatoge?

 BA> No.  I claim that CWA does (or did).  So do the coal
 BA> miners.  I'm sure there are other examples.

 Did how long ago? In the coal miner example I found the only one
 killed was a striker killed by a strike breaker.

 I have been in CWA, IBEW, and now USWA. I have never seen an
 example of labor violence. And we have been through several
 strikes.

 BK>> And was it "common" in the sense that every union
member did it?

 BA> It was common in that it was expected behavior.

 Expected that some people will get out of hand?

 BK>> Or even a majority or just a fairly small number?

 BA> It only takes one.

 To commit a crime, yes. To discredit a union, no.

 BA>>> You also consider threats of bodily harm to be legitimate
 BA>>> union organizing tactics.  That sort of thing *is* quite
 BA>>> common in most union organizing efforts, particularly when
 BA>>> peer pressure doesn't seem to be working.

 BK>>  It is? And you have some evidence to back that up?

 BA> The coal miners are a whole lot closer to you than they are
 BA> to me. I'm surprised you're unaware of their past and
 BA> presumably current activities.

 Do not presume too much. I am aware that violence was the past
 of both sides. I have not heard of any such tactics in recent
 times.

 BK>> And since when do the majority of workers have to kowtow to the
 BK>> pressure of anyone? Esp when electons are secret? If secret elections
 BK>>  don't make a difference, then why bother, just sign the card and  the
 BK>> union is in.

 BA> You forget that those secret elections are to be eliminated
 BA> under the proposed new (and horribly misnamed) legislation.

 Maybe, maybe not. After all, if the employer sees the workers
 signing up just ask the NLRB for an immediate election. Pre-empt
 the union.

 BK>>  I have belonged to IBEW, CWA, and now USWA, and I have never
 BK>>  witnessed any form of intimidation against anyone in any union
 BK>>  activity.

 BA> I used to work with a fellow who had worked for a railroad.
 BA>  He was strongly 'encouraged' to join the union - by six
 BA>  union members armed with clubs in a dark, isolated corner
 BA>  of the railyard.  He quit that job and joined the navy.

 Where was this? When was this?

 BA> If you like we can discuss union coal miners taking pot
 BA> shots at miners working in non-union mines in Appalachia if
 BA> you like.

 Where and when? How about the wives of miners being beaten on
 the picket lines?

 BK>>  I have never known sabatoge to be approved by any union
 BK>>  official.

 BA> I'm sure they'd never admit to it, even if they were caught
 BA> on tape doing it.

 And if they were doing it sooner or later they would be caught
 on tape.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn{at}sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... To a lawyer: "The Sun rose in the West," is a statement of fact.
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