Replying to a message of Bob Klahn to Bob Ackley:

 BA>> Replying to a message of Bob Klahn to Bob Ackley:

 BA>>>> You consider destruction of property and intentional
 BA>>>> sabotage of equipment to be 'negotiating?'  That sort of
 BA>>>> thing was quite common when the CWA went out on strike
 BA>>>> against the Bell System.

 BK>>>  You claim all unions engage in sabatoge?

 BA>> No.  I claim that CWA does (or did).  So do the coal
 BA>> miners.  I'm sure there are other examples.

 BK>  Did how long ago? In the coal miner example I found the only one 
 BK> killed was a striker killed by a strike breaker.

 BK>  I have been in CWA, IBEW, and now USWA. I have never seen an
 BK>  example of labor violence. And we have been through several
 BK>  strikes.

It doesn't take violence to take a set of bolt cutters to a telephone trunk cable
or a set of diagonal wire cutters to a fiber optic cable.  Those are things that
are quick and dirty - and can be done by one person; and unless every inch of
those cables are covered by video monitors the perpetrator will not be caught.

 BK>>> And was it "common" in the sense that every union
member did it?

 BA>> It was common in that it was expected behavior.

 BK>  Expected that some people will get out of hand?

 BK>>> Or even a majority or just a fairly small number?

 BA>> It only takes one.

 BK>  To commit a crime, yes. To discredit a union, no.

 BA>>>> You also consider threats of bodily harm to be legitimate
 BA>>>> union organizing tactics.  That sort of thing *is* quite
 BA>>>> common in most union organizing efforts, particularly when
 BA>>>> peer pressure doesn't seem to be working.

 BK>>>  It is? And you have some evidence to back that up?

 BA>> The coal miners are a whole lot closer to you than they are
 BA>> to me. I'm surprised you're unaware of their past and
 BA>> presumably current activities.

 BK>  Do not presume too much. I am aware that violence was the past
 BK>  of both sides. I have not heard of any such tactics in recent
 BK>  times.

 BK>>> And since when do the majority of workers have to kowtow to the
 BK>>> pressure of anyone? Esp when electons are secret? If secret
 BK>>> elections  don't make a difference, then why bother, just sign the
 BK>>> card and  the union is in.

 BA>> You forget that those secret elections are to be eliminated
 BA>> under the proposed new (and horribly misnamed) legislation.

 BK>  Maybe, maybe not. After all, if the employer sees the workers
 BK>  signing up just ask the NLRB for an immediate election. Pre-empt  the
 BK> union.

Maybe, maybe not nothing.  That's the *purpose* of this legislation, to
eliminate the secret ballot that the unions keep losing.

 BK>>>  I have belonged to IBEW, CWA, and now USWA, and I have never
 BK>>>  witnessed any form of intimidation against anyone in any union
 BK>>>  activity.

 BA>> I used to work with a fellow who had worked for a railroad.
 BA>>  He was strongly 'encouraged' to join the union - by six
 BA>>  union members armed with clubs in a dark, isolated corner
 BA>>  of the railyard.  He quit that job and joined the navy.

 BK>  Where was this? When was this?

In Ohio AAMOF.  Late 1960s.  That may be ancient history to you,
but it does show the union mindset.

--- FleetStreet 1.19+