Andre Lieven wrote:
> "bluesmama" (onebluesmama{at}gmail.com) writes:
> > I'm still waiting for something worth debating with you on this
thread.
>
> LOL. Lets debate the common and pervasive misandry of Feminism.
>
> As in the long list of Feminist quotes that I gave you, and you...
> REFUSED to " debate ".

What exactly would you like to debate about the quotes in question -
their accuracy?

They're in print. They may very well be accurate quotes. Not having
been there when they were said, and having no hand in the recording and
editing process, I can't attest to either their accuracy or inaccuracy.
Unless you've heard these quotes delivered by the people they are
claimed to have been delivered by, you can't attest to that either.

So, for the sake of argument, let's approach them as if we knew for
certain they're accurate recordings of words spoken by some feminists.
I don't have any trouble believing that they've been said, people say
and believe and publish hateful thoughts every day. I have never
claimed there aren't feminists out there who hate men and believe women
are superior. Because I believe in their existence, doesn't mean I'm
one of them.

Did you want to debate the truth of the quotes offered?

If Feminist A says all men are potential rapists, is it a true, as in
factually accurate, statement? I guess it's "true" from her
perspective, or she probably wouldn't have said it. I don't know her
history and have no idea why she might think the things she does.

Do _I_ believe all men are potential rapists? I suppose if you just ask
if they have the necessary physical equipment, I guess you could make
that statement, and use the presence of a penis as your "fact" upon
which your statement about rape is based.

But do all men have a propensity to violence? Do all men need to have
power and control over others? Do all men have not just the necessary
physical, but the necessary mental, attributes that would be required
for them to rape?

I don't personally believe all men are potential rapists. But then how
do I know that my belief, based on the facts I have at hand, is any
more accurate and universally true than Feminist A? Studies and
statistics can be found to back up either claim. I just have to trust
my personal experience with men and my belief in the inherent goodness
of people, male or female.

What it seems you don't understand, Andre, is that anyone can conduct a
study, pick and choose the results or statistics that back up the claim
they're trying to prove, and publish their "findings". The fact that
something is widely believed and in print doesn't make it true. But if
you are still having trouble with that fact, I have this intriguing
email from a Nigerian bank I'd be delighted to forward to you.

> > Now if you were to quit proudly pissing your name on the screen and
> > tell me something about men and women I don't know
>
> I did. Gave you a load of quotes about *the misandry of Feminism*.
>
> YOU flounced it off.

I still don't know what you want to debate. I've seen the quotes, I
believe they're accurate recordings, they don't describe my view of the
world. All they prove is that some women, and some feminists, hate men.
This is something you want to debate? I think it's been proven already.

You gave me quotes about the misandry of _some_ feminists. Like I said,
the question of whether there are some women and some feminists who
hate men isn't open for debate as far as I'm concerned. Misandry exists
as surely as misogyny does.

> > and that you didn't
> > read in a book or watch on TV or copy from another similarly
> > close-minded poster,

You have issues of your own related to bias. I struggle to deal with
mine, because I've acknowledged them and don't have the arrogance to
see myself as infallible. You see yourself as above reproach and will
continue to delude yourself and call any information that echoes what
you believe unbiased and authoritative.

It's the thoughts of your own, not the parroting of quotes you've heard
or read, that intrigue me.

Misandry is not going to end until it is understood _why_ Feminist A
believes all men are potential rapists - and all the other myths are
debunked.

Misognyny is not going to end until it is understood _why_ men like you
believe that any woman who doesn't see herself and inferior to you and
kiss your ass is a man-hater.

You can't change attitudes and beliefs until you change the thoughts
and experiences that prompted them. And you can't challenge the
validity of those thoughts and experiences until you listen to and
consider them. So as long as you are hung up on what people say and not
_why_ they say it, you'll be "debating" useless points for a very long
time.

You wouldn't know logic if it jumped up and bit you in the nuts, by the
way. And it just occurred to me that you might want to do a study of
your own. The women you've been in contact with that have made you so
misogynistic might not be man-haters after all.
They might just hate you.



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