Andre Lieven wrote:
> "bluesmama" (onebluesmama{at}gmail.com) writes:
> > Andre Lieven wrote:
> >> "bluesmama" (onebluesmama{at}gmail.com) writes:
> >> > I'm still waiting for something worth debating with you on this
> >> > thread.
> >>
> >> LOL. Lets debate the common and pervasive misandry of Feminism.
> >>
> >> As in the long list of Feminist quotes that I gave you, and you...
> >> REFUSED to " debate ".
> >
> > What exactly would you like to debate about the quotes in question
-
> > their accuracy?
>
> No: What they accurately say about the common and systemic misandry
> in the so called women's movement.
>
> > They're in print. They may very well be accurate quotes. Not having
> > been there when they were said, and having no hand in the recording
and
> > editing process, I can't attest to either their accuracy or
inaccuracy.
> > Unless you've heard these quotes delivered by the people they are
> > claimed to have been delivered by, you can't attest to that either.
>
> Wrong.
>
> > So, for the sake of argument, let's approach them as if we knew for
> > certain they're accurate recordings of words spoken by some
feminists.
> > I don't have any trouble believing that they've been said, people
say
> > and believe and publish hateful thoughts every day. I have never
> > claimed there aren't feminists out there who hate men and believe
women
> > are superior. Because I believe in their existence, doesn't mean
I'm
> > one of them.
>
> Non sequitur: You choose to lay down with pigs, don't complain about
> what dirt then sticks to you... due to your choice.
>
> > Did you want to debate the truth of the quotes offered?
>
> Not really. They're all deeply wrong, but thats common with ignorant
> bigots.
>
> > If Feminist A says all men are potential rapists, is it a true, as
in
> > factually accurate, statement? I guess it's "true" from her
> > perspective, or she probably wouldn't have said it.
>
> So, when a KKK-er says that " all coons is evil ", thats
" true "
> from their perspective ?
>
> > I don't know her
> > history and have no idea why she might think the things she does.
>
> Then... *learn*.
>
> > Do _I_ believe all men are potential rapists? I suppose if you just
ask
> > if they have the necessary physical equipment, I guess you could
make
> > that statement, and use the presence of a penis as your
"fact" upon
> > which your statement about rape is based.
>
> OK then: We can say with equal accuracy that " all women are
potential
> false rape accusers, and false paternity claimants. "
>
> Lets make that phrase as well known, as the Feminist ones...
>
> After all, you do want... equality ? 
>
> > But do all men have a propensity to violence? Do all men need to
have
> > power and control over others? Do all men have not just the
necessary
> > physical, but the necessary mental, attributes that would be
required
> > for them to rape?
> >
> > I don't personally believe all men are potential rapists. But then
how
> > do I know that my belief, based on the facts I have at hand, is any
> > more accurate and universally true than Feminist A? Studies and
> > statistics can be found to back up either claim. I just have to
trust
> > my personal experience with men and my belief in the inherent
goodness
> > of people, male or female.
>
> Wrong. But, since you show that you CANNOT learn, unless it's from a
> " wimmin's way of knowing ", then its clear that you choose to stay
> intellectually *inferior* to men...
>
> > What it seems you don't understand, Andre, is that anyone can
conduct a
> > study, pick and choose the results or statistics that back up the
claim
> > they're trying to prove, and publish their "findings".
>
> Wrong. Science, as opposed to lying Feminist rhetoric, is based on
> the reproducibility of the results. The studies that we happy
regulars
> here speak of, and post, have all *passed* that scientific test,
while
> we also point out *how* the Feminist ones... have NOT.
>
> See Braver, for example, on the deep and systemic and deliberate
> fraud/flaws in Lenore Weitzman's claims of women falling 78%
> economically, post divorce.
>
> Science *caught her lies*. Thats why it's science, and not Feminist
> rhetoric.
>
> > The fact that
> > something is widely believed and in print doesn't make it true.
>
> Indeed: See " Superbowl DV spike ", debunked by Christina Hoff
> Sommers' work, and " women make 7X cents to a man's dollar ",
> debunked in Warren Farrell's latest work.
>
> > But if
> > you are still having trouble with that fact, I have this intriguing
> > email from a Nigerian bank I'd be delighted to forward to you.
>
> Naw, I don't get those: Apparantly, they still view you as that...
> gullible.
>
> And, they're not wrong: You are a Feminist, after all... 
>
> >> > Now if you were to quit proudly pissing your name on the screen
and
> >> > tell me something about men and women I don't know
> >>
> >> I did. Gave you a load of quotes about *the misandry of Feminism*.
> >>
> >> YOU flounced it off.
> >
> > I still don't know what you want to debate. I've seen the quotes, I
> > believe they're accurate recordings, they don't describe my view of
the
> > world. All they prove is that some women, and some feminists, hate
men.
> > This is something you want to debate? I think it's been proven
already.
>
> What does it say about a *movement* whose primary leaders and
speakers
> say such things, and are NOT rebuked and removed from their positions
?
>
> Answer: The movement *agrees* with them.
>
> > You gave me quotes about the misandry of _some_ feminists. Like I
said,
> > the question of whether there are some women and some feminists who
> > hate men isn't open for debate as far as I'm concerned. Misandry
exists
> > as surely as misogyny does.
>
> No claim offered, wrt societal misogyny ? Claim fails.
>
> >> > and that you didn't
> >> > read in a book or watch on TV or copy from another similarly
> >> > close-minded poster,
> >
> > You have issues of your own related to bias.
>
> No proof offered ? Claim fails.
>
> > I struggle to deal with
> > mine, because I've acknowledged them and don't have the arrogance
to
> > see myself as infallible.
>
> ROTFLMAO ! Sure, thats why you've argued *against* everyone who
pointed
> out your misandrist biases...
>
> Tartlette, I may have been born at night, but it sure wasn't last
night...
>
> > You see yourself as above reproach and will
> > continue to delude yourself and call any information that echoes
what
> > you believe unbiased and authoritative.
>
> No proof offered ? Claim fails. Again.
>
> > It's the thoughts of your own, not the parroting of quotes you've
heard
> > or read, that intrigue me.
>
> " No one is entitled to their opinion. They are only entitled to an
> *informed* opinion. " Harlan Ellison.
>
> > Misandry is not going to end until it is understood _why_ Feminist
A
> > believes all men are potential rapists - and all the other myths
are
> > debunked.
>
> And, Feminists AREN'T doing either job...
>
> > Misognyny is not going to end until it is understood _why_ men like
you
> > believe that any woman who doesn't see herself and inferior to you
and
> > kiss your ass is a man-hater.
>
> No proof offered ? Claim fails.
>
> > You can't change attitudes and beliefs until you change the
thoughts
> > and experiences that prompted them. And you can't challenge the
> > validity of those thoughts and experiences until you listen to and
> > consider them. So as long as you are hung up on what people say and
not
> > _why_ they say it, you'll be "debating" useless points for a very
long
> > time.
>
> You propose a false dichotemy: One can simultaneously, consider BOTH
> issues...
>
> > You wouldn't know logic if it jumped up and bit you in the nuts, by
the
> > way.
>
> No proof offered ? Claim fails.
>
> > And it just occurred to me that you might want to do a study of
> > your own. The women you've been in contact with that have made you
so
> > misogynistic might not be man-haters after all.
> > They might just hate you.
>
> Ah, the ol' whore of a variation on " you can't get any ", all
> ASSuming that women who try to call me names are good people.
>
> Well, I'll let former PM Pierre Trudeau say it for me:
>
> " I've been called worse things, *by better people*. "
>
> 
>
> Thanks for playing, toots, and for, once again showing that
> you don't, at all, stop to question that the reason so many
> here have taken proper runs at you, is due to YOUR cult of
> misandry. Feminism.
>
> Andre
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> " I'm a man... But, I can change... If I have to... I guess. "
>                                     The Man Prayer, Red Green.

Again, you have nothing of yourself to offer besides sarcasm (and not
really effective sarcasm, sadly) and slogans.



--- UseNet To RIME Gateway {at} 1/30/05 6:02:23 PM ---